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	<title>Comments on: NOM Marriage News: December 4, 2009</title>
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	<link>http://www.nomblog.com/622/</link>
	<description>The official blog of the National Organization for Marriage</description>
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		<title>By: Chairm</title>
		<link>http://www.nomblog.com/622/comment-page-1/#comment-10840</link>
		<dc:creator>Chairm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 07:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Chris Baker, while SSMers might wish to cast aspersions, the lawyers at the ADF are far from incompetent.

Can you please provide a link to a sampling of these reports you read?

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Baker, while SSMers might wish to cast aspersions, the lawyers at the ADF are far from incompetent.</p>
<p>Can you please provide a link to a sampling of these reports you read?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.nomblog.com/622/comment-page-1/#comment-10810</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>According to a report in the liberal media, there is a group called the &quot;Alliance Defense Fund&quot; that&#039;s effectively undermining the efforts of NOM and many other groups to defend marriage in states like New York and New Jersey. It has to do with a federal court case where a judge is seeking to claim the power to over-ride the people&#039;s vote for Proposition 8 in California.

The basis of our democracy is that the people’s will is by its nature unknowable and therefore the people’s will need not be justified or made accountable to a federal aristocracy that claims to be superior to the will of the people. That argument is what “human rights” is really all about and it was at the heart of the successful campaign in Maine to sustain the people’s veto of homosexual marriage. However according to this media report, the &quot;Alliance Defense Fund&quot; is so incompetent that they are effectively undermining everything that NOM sought to do in Maine, New York, New Jersey and elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to a report in the liberal media, there is a group called the "Alliance Defense Fund" that's effectively undermining the efforts of NOM and many other groups to defend marriage in states like New York and New Jersey. It has to do with a federal court case where a judge is seeking to claim the power to over-ride the people's vote for Proposition 8 in California.</p>
<p>The basis of our democracy is that the people’s will is by its nature unknowable and therefore the people’s will need not be justified or made accountable to a federal aristocracy that claims to be superior to the will of the people. That argument is what “human rights” is really all about and it was at the heart of the successful campaign in Maine to sustain the people’s veto of homosexual marriage. However according to this media report, the "Alliance Defense Fund" is so incompetent that they are effectively undermining everything that NOM sought to do in Maine, New York, New Jersey and elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Chairm</title>
		<link>http://www.nomblog.com/622/comment-page-1/#comment-10807</link>
		<dc:creator>Chairm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomblog.com/?p=622#comment-10807</guid>
		<description>In California and in Maine, opinion surveys had underestimated support for marriage by about 10% points. This underestimation has been typical in states across the country.

Fact: the one-sexed arrangement is not illegal. Fact: But neither is marriage one-sexed or sex-neutral. 

Anyway, misleading survey questions about &quot;legalizing&quot; something that is not illegal will produce misleading results.

On the other hand, it is interesting how the SSMer will suddenly find great merit in majority opinion -- at least in these kinds of surveys -- but will also disparage majority opinion expressed in lawmaking and direct votes on marriage measures. 

Double standard, much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In California and in Maine, opinion surveys had underestimated support for marriage by about 10% points. This underestimation has been typical in states across the country.</p>
<p>Fact: the one-sexed arrangement is not illegal. Fact: But neither is marriage one-sexed or sex-neutral. </p>
<p>Anyway, misleading survey questions about "legalizing" something that is not illegal will produce misleading results.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is interesting how the SSMer will suddenly find great merit in majority opinion -- at least in these kinds of surveys -- but will also disparage majority opinion expressed in lawmaking and direct votes on marriage measures. </p>
<p>Double standard, much.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.nomblog.com/622/comment-page-1/#comment-10801</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomblog.com/?p=622#comment-10801</guid>
		<description>If that Marist College poll were correct, we would have seen more senators vote for SSM.   It did not work out that way at all because people contacted their senators and asked them to vote no.  People do not want their religious freedoms attacked.  Also, people can see what&#039;s happening in DC to Catholic schools and Catholic services and might wonder why the Church should have to get out of the business of helping people because of SSM.  Is it really worth it?   Do we want to see anyone who disagrees with SSM put down as a &quot;bigot&quot; as so many of the comments on this blog say?  Principled argumentation and deeply held spiritual beliefs is not the same as bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that Marist College poll were correct, we would have seen more senators vote for SSM.   It did not work out that way at all because people contacted their senators and asked them to vote no.  People do not want their religious freedoms attacked.  Also, people can see what's happening in DC to Catholic schools and Catholic services and might wonder why the Church should have to get out of the business of helping people because of SSM.  Is it really worth it?   Do we want to see anyone who disagrees with SSM put down as a "bigot" as so many of the comments on this blog say?  Principled argumentation and deeply held spiritual beliefs is not the same as bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.nomblog.com/622/comment-page-1/#comment-10790</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomblog.com/?p=622#comment-10790</guid>
		<description>a Marist College poll released Wednesday found that 51 percent of New Yorkers questioned favored legalizing same-sex marriage, with 42 percent opposed. A June poll by Qunnipiac University poll reported a similar spread of 51 percent to 41 percent. Go, NY!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a Marist College poll released Wednesday found that 51 percent of New Yorkers questioned favored legalizing same-sex marriage, with 42 percent opposed. A June poll by Qunnipiac University poll reported a similar spread of 51 percent to 41 percent. Go, NY!</p>
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		<title>By: Chairm</title>
		<link>http://www.nomblog.com/622/comment-page-1/#comment-10779</link>
		<dc:creator>Chairm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomblog.com/?p=622#comment-10779</guid>
		<description>Brian said: &quot;Do they have any idea how odd they sound?&quot;

Nope. But I doubt they are listening to their own words, much less to the pro-marriage arguments. They are disconnected because of the sword of identity politics and its heavy reliance on emotivism.

Brian said: &quot;&#039;The Dede Effect&#039; surely helped persuade some squishy GOP state senators of a basic political truth: It is a bad idea for a Republican to vote for gay marriage.   

Across the country, direct votes on state pro-marriage measures have drawn the support of more Democrats and Independents, combined, than Republicans. Likewise, more self-identified liberals and moderates, combined, have voted for state pro-marriage measures than have conservative voters.

Sure there is proportionately more support for marriage among conservatives, who are more likely to be Republicans, but the pro-marriage support runs across partisan and ideological divides. Marriage is a winner because marriage unites Americans. More and more, as the SSM merger is rejected openly, this support is expressed electorally and in less formal forums. When people who are soft supporters of the SSM merger understand that the namecalling of SSMers does not decide the matter, they tend to reaffirm marriage as the union of man and woman. They reject the emphasis on identity politics and reconsider the special reason for the special status of marriage in our society. That reason is extrinsic to identity politics (of all sorts) and stands against the mushy thinking, the anti-social hostility, that has fueled the drive toward the SSM merger.

The SSM campaign has probably already peaked and will face a steady decline as marriage supporters draw more respect for the dignified and professional approach that NOM has brought to the national stage via local victories.

Brian said: &quot;. We will never give up fighting for the truth, for common sense, for democracy, for civility, for the idea that we are made male and female, and meant to come together in love in marriage, for life.&quot;

Thank you Brian. Thank you NOM. Thank you pro-marriage New Yorks and marriage supporters everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian said: "Do they have any idea how odd they sound?"</p>
<p>Nope. But I doubt they are listening to their own words, much less to the pro-marriage arguments. They are disconnected because of the sword of identity politics and its heavy reliance on emotivism.</p>
<p>Brian said: "'The Dede Effect' surely helped persuade some squishy GOP state senators of a basic political truth: It is a bad idea for a Republican to vote for gay marriage.   </p>
<p>Across the country, direct votes on state pro-marriage measures have drawn the support of more Democrats and Independents, combined, than Republicans. Likewise, more self-identified liberals and moderates, combined, have voted for state pro-marriage measures than have conservative voters.</p>
<p>Sure there is proportionately more support for marriage among conservatives, who are more likely to be Republicans, but the pro-marriage support runs across partisan and ideological divides. Marriage is a winner because marriage unites Americans. More and more, as the SSM merger is rejected openly, this support is expressed electorally and in less formal forums. When people who are soft supporters of the SSM merger understand that the namecalling of SSMers does not decide the matter, they tend to reaffirm marriage as the union of man and woman. They reject the emphasis on identity politics and reconsider the special reason for the special status of marriage in our society. That reason is extrinsic to identity politics (of all sorts) and stands against the mushy thinking, the anti-social hostility, that has fueled the drive toward the SSM merger.</p>
<p>The SSM campaign has probably already peaked and will face a steady decline as marriage supporters draw more respect for the dignified and professional approach that NOM has brought to the national stage via local victories.</p>
<p>Brian said: ". We will never give up fighting for the truth, for common sense, for democracy, for civility, for the idea that we are made male and female, and meant to come together in love in marriage, for life."</p>
<p>Thank you Brian. Thank you NOM. Thank you pro-marriage New Yorks and marriage supporters everywhere.</p>
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