The Supreme Court just ruled 8-1 that a fringe cult that calls itself the "Westboro Baptist Church" has a First Amendment right to use funerals (of soldiers who died serving their country) to protest.
The fringe cult calling itself Westboro Baptist (a small congregation consisting of close, and possibly incestuous, relatives of Fred Phelpsl, who calls himself a pastor) first became famous by protesting gay rights events with revolting signs suggesting that God hates gay people. (They used another offensive terms as well).
These ugly signs proved irresistible to reporters from the New York Times etc., who like to pretend this sentiment captures religious conservatives' views generally.
Eventually even the New York Times and the other MSM came to realize they were photographing the same small band of people over and over again. So Fred Phelps, in his desperate search to feel important, switched to protesting the funerals of soldiers who died serving their country.
Only Justice Sam Alito had the common sense to recognize that somewhere in our great Constitution, there has to be a way to let people bury their dead, without becoming the objects of other people's monomaniacal desire to disrupt their grieving for publicity purposes.
(Perhaps we could make an exception for state funerals.)
Burials happen in public (we don't actually let people bury their dead on their own property any more). But they are not public events.
These regulations designed to circumvent Fred Phelps' evil and irrational plans, are not directed at the content of speech, they are reasonable time and place restrictions that any decent society should respect.
The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
20 Comments
On the LOATHSOME SCALE, Fred Phelps and his clan at the Westboro Baptist Church are about as far beyond the pale as anyone can get ... but until they are proved to be inciting violence or causing genuine physical harm, their speech is protected by the 1st Amendment. Jerry Falwell said that Gays were responsible for 9/11; Pat Robertson said that God might hurl a meteor at Disneyworld because of "Gay Days;" and Phelps & Co. insist that God hates ... well, just about everyone. Ugly, hateful words that do nothing but reflect poorly on the speakers, but protected speech nonetheless. The Supreme Court made the right decision.
The Phelps gang is one of the worst, most disturbed groups of people on the planet, but yes, their speech is protected by the first amendment, just like letting a group of skinheads march through a Jewish community, or letting a group of Christians go around the country telling everyone that homosexuality is a sin and that we don't have a right to marry. Unless your inciting violence, it's protected no mater how hateful it is.
Yes, as loathsome as WBC's activities certainly are, I have to agree that the court made the correct decision in favor of free speech.
Although I do have to wonder... Not knowing the specific form of their protests, would the court have reached the same decision if, instead of being held outside a funeral, WBC had protested outside an abortion clinic?
I'm asking, not saying...
Nobody is trying to suppress Phelps' right to speak. This is about proper time and place restrictions.
There's a fundamental natural right for people to bury their dead in peace.
Phelps is exploiting a loophole. It would not matter if he were saying "Stop abortions now!" Or something I agreed with.
Yes, i think they would make the same ruling. I should think that protesting outside an abortion clinic is less controversial than what the phelps clan does, but in any case i think if free speech protects this kind of protest, there isn't much else it wouldn't protect.
Maggie, suggesting that only the NYT and liberal media report on the WBC is unfair. They appear on fox too, and are bashed by everyone. Your claim that reporting on them is intended to malign religious conservatives is an interpretation, and a false one I think. They're a sensational news item, of course they're going to get press.
Common sense should have won in this case. A funeral of all things is a difficult time, you don't need any additional sorrow added as insult. Speech is protected, too bad people don't have the common sense on how to use that right.
The outrage shouldn't be at the law, but at the lame group. They are like some bully that just wont go away. They aren't making themselves any friends here. Just pushing the public away.
As repugnant as Westboro is, I believe SCOTUS got it right. Furthermore, this removes a major objection of SSM opponents to legalization. If Westboro's acts which are far more hateful and expressed in a far more hateful manner are protected speech, than NOM, FRC, AFA, or anyone else need not fear prosecution over saying what they say now.
Westboro is vile, but SCOTUS got it right...and this decision goes to show that gay people don't threaten anyone's right to free speech.
"Phelps is exploiting a loophole. It would not matter if he were saying "Stop abortions now!" Or something I agreed with."
So, in other words, you're all for picking and choosing what the Constitution guarantees, and what it doesn't?
Free speech is free speech, Maggie. There is no loop hole to exploit.
You might want to check facts about this particular case. WBC was 1,000 feet away...they were following all local ordinances AND the person who brought the suit against them...didn't even know they were at the funeral, until he saw it on the news!
"This is about proper time and place restrictions"
Right, Maggie. And the Phelpses honored both. The protesting family was 1000+ feet away, on a public sidewalk. They were not at the burial. The stopped protesting before the funeral, as required of them. And they actually worked with law enforcement, again, as they're wont to do.
Mr. Snyder didn't even know of their messaging until after the fact -- he learned about it from TV and WBC's own website writings.
Adam: You say "The outrage shouldn't be at the law, but at the lame group." But that's not a reasonable choice here. It's possible to find the Phelpses reprehensible but also support their right under the law.
SCOTUS upheld the right of this reprehensible group to disrupt funerals with their hate. And yet they won't let courthouses display the ten commandments?
Weird.
Mark: "this decision goes to show that gay people don't threaten anyone's right to free speech."
Yeah, that explains why the gay press is even more upset over this decision than our dear friends here at NOM.... go figure.
CNY, weird indeed.
I have only read things agreeing with SCOTUS decision. Comments on blogs generally too... Marty supremes already ruled on cases re: abortion protests. It was the correct decision- you can't keep people from providing a message because you don't like the content. But yea WBC are gross...
Conaervativeny- if every other possible religion is represented than ten commandments would be one of them... But the government avoids favoring one religious symbol over another- so instead no symbol is present- gov't avoids appearing to favor hydro christian lore over others this way. However if u want to protest that decision u can get some pointers from WBC
I don't think the Supreme Court needs our opinions on this matter. Yes, the Westboro Baptist Church have free speech, but do they achieve their goals? Or do they defeat them? Maybe we should do the same (protest at funerals) to voice our opinions that funerals morally (not legally) should be respected?
There is a difference between expressing a religion and favoring one religion over another, Combatvet. The ten commandments happen to have a huge influence over the development of secular law in this country. The only people it offends are athiests who what to ostracize and suppress religion from all levels of society as though the "seperation of church and state" were mentioned anywhere in the US Constitution.
That's the threat to the 1st amendment right to free religion.
I don't see the relevance of this to marriage issues. I also fail to see the virute in calling out SCOTUS as did Obama with the Citizens United decision. That's something which Obama and his supporters engage in.
He does not deserve the rights he has, but because he is an American he has these rights.