NOM BLOG

NOM Calls Southern Poverty Law Center’s New “Hate” Designation an “Absurd Distraction”

 

WASHINGTON - The Southern Poverty Law Center (SLPC) today included NOM among “18 Anti-Gay Groups and Their Propaganda.”

Brian Brown, President of the National Organization for Marriage, reacts:

“This is an absurd distraction emanating from a once-great organization’s real mission---with all the actual hate groups out there, how can Southern Poverty Law Center stoop so low?” said Brown.  

While the current report stops short of labeling NOM a “hate group” at this time, many other social conservative groups are so-designated.  In a confusing move, the SLPC report lists 18 groups as “anti-gay” and suggests that  at least 13 will be designated hate groups this spring.

“This report is not an attack on NOM but on the majority of Americans who believe that to make a marriage you need a husband and wife," said Brown.  "It is also further proof of what NOM has been saying: today’s gay marriage movement is no longer about tolerance, live or let live—it’s about driving out dissenting voices from the public square.  Gay marriage now serves as the tip of the spear to a new campaign to demonize and generate hatred against those who adhere to traditional views of sex and marriage.”

“I’m very proud of the message that NOM has carried consistently and with great love and courage: which is that marriage matters because children need a mom and dad; Our battle is not with an orientation but a political movement that seeks to use the law to embed a new moral idea: there is no difference between same-sex and opposite sex couples and you’re a hater, bigot and quasi-racist if you disagree.   It’s very sad to see the deterioration of a once-great civil rights organization to this level,” said Maggie Gallagher, Chairman of the Board of NOM.  “They undercut their own credibility far more than NOM’s --which is doubly sad because we need great civil rights organizations now more than ever, just as we need more voices trying to rise above the hate to create a climate where we can argue, dispute and disagree as fellow citizens, not as enemies.”

“Regular readers of NOM’s work know how we characterize gay people: those who support our vision of marriage, we welcome to join our work. For gay marriage advocates (the majority of whom are not gay) we say: we think you are wrong, and we will fight for our right to vote for marriage in the public square,” added Brown.

From the SLPC report on the blog:

18 Anti-Gay Groups and Their PropagandaEven as some well-known anti-gay groups like Focus on the Family moderate their views, a hard core of smaller groups, most of them religiously motivated, have continued to pump out demonizing propaganda aimed at homosexuals and other sexual minorities. These groups’ influence reaches far beyond what their size would suggest, because the “facts” they disseminate about homosexuality are often amplified by certain politicians, other groups and even news organizations. Of the 18 groups profiled below, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) will be listing 13 next year as hate groups (eight were previously listed), reflecting further research into their views; those are each marked with an asterisk. Generally, the SPLC’s listings of these groups is based on their propagation of known falsehoods — claims about LGBT people that have been thoroughly discredited by scientific authorities — and repeated, groundless name-calling. Viewing homosexuality as unbiblical does not qualify organizations for listing as hate groups.

To schedule an interview with Brian Brown, President of the National Organization for Marriage, or Maggie Gallagher, Chairman of the Board, contact Elizabeth Ray (x.130) or Mary Beth Hutchins (x.105) at 703-683-5004.

49 Comments

  1. Posted November 25, 2010 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    If you refuse to support the glbt community, you WILL be falsely accused of "hate." That's just how the homofascist mind works. I go out of my way to denounce homophobia, yet my refusal to support the "gay" community still brings false accusations of "hate."

  2. Don
    Posted November 25, 2010 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    It is sad indeed to see a once noble organization, which was pursuing noble goals, be hijacked and used for nefarious purposes.

    If you squeeze a lemon, you get lemon juice. Why? Because that is what is inside of the lemon! If an organization is always talking about hate, and identifying organizations as hate groups, that is coming out of them because that is what is in them! "By their fruits shall ye know them."

    To the SPLC I say; "Judge not, that ye be not judged." If the SPLC wants to find fault with NOM, I say; "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

    One of the reasons why I love NOM is that NOM ALWAYS takes the high road. NOM deals with issues and behaviors, refraining from devaluing individuals who oppose their principles by calling them bigots or hateful.

    If a gardenia is crushed, it still gives off it's lovely fragrance. While NOM stands up strongly for marriage, it still exudes love even when vehemently attacked. That's called walking the walk!

  3. Posted November 25, 2010 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    It should be noted that SPLC did not list any Orthodox Jewish or Islamic organizations as hate groups, even though their beliefs on marriage is indistinguishable from NOM's.

  4. adsf
    Posted November 25, 2010 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Or Westboro Baptist Church.

    What.

    The.

    Frig!

  5. Anna
    Posted November 26, 2010 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Only Christian organizations are listed as “hate” groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center? Wow, I’m surprised.

    As for Westboro Baptist…I’m sure they would have made it on the list. Except for the fact that most of the venom those cretins spew is directed toward our fallen soldiers. So, ya know, at least they got THAT going for them!

    I wonder if SPLC designated as a “hate” group that bastion of Right-Wing Christiandom, otherwise known as the “United Nations” for its declaration that the natural family, being the fundamental unit of a society, is guaranteed protection by society and the state.

    http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/12_things_your_mp_never_told_you_about_the_family/

  6. Lewis
    Posted November 26, 2010 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Since most people involved with NOM tend to be very ill informed I will bring you up to speed...

    First off you will notice Westborough baptist church is not on this list because they are ALREADY designated a hate group...

    Second, the report from the SPLC emphasizes that the groups it names are listed as hate groups because they are knowingly lying and spreading demonizing propaganda about gay people, and not for their views on homosexuality. However, so far, none of the groups named have responded to that claim specifically and have instead focused directly on the “hate group” designation, saying that comparing innocent traditional-value-upholding groups such as themselves to racist organizations is wrong

  7. Lewis
    Posted November 26, 2010 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    have any of you looked at what these groups have said or the reaosns they have been designated? Or do you just assume that because they are "christian" groups they must not be hate groups? You should be concerned because they are not representing Christian values.
    They claim that Nazis were all gay, that we should bring in laws to kill homosexuals (for crimes of thought, not even actions), they go out and just call names at gay people, harrass and attack, and propogate so-called "facts" that have no basis and have in fact been refuted.

  8. adsf
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    Lewis, I agree with you regarding the majority of groups listed there. However, NOM is unjustly grouped with them. The only piece of incriminating evidence they have against NOM is this:

    "For a time, NOM’s name was used by a bus driver named Louis Marinelli, who drove a van for NOM’s “Summer for Marriage Tour” this year. Marinelli called himself a “NOM strategist” and sent out electronic messages under the NOM logo that repeated falsehoods about homosexuals being pedophiles and gay men having extremely short lifespans (see story, p. 32). In homemade videos posted on his own YouTube page, he said same-sex marriage would lead to “prostitution, pedophilia and polygamy.” But this July, NOM said it was not associated with Marinelli."

    So let me get this straight: NOM is being stigmatized as an anti-gay bully organization entirely due to some comments made by someone who has no real affiliation with them other than driving their tour bus.

    Nice work, SPLC.

  9. Don
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 2:17 am | Permalink

    Excellent point, adsf!

    The fact remains, Lewis, that the SPLC is devoting a portion of it's time and energy to making judgements about which groups are "hate groups". That's sick! Who anointed them to decide for the public which groups are hate groups? Are they so perfect that they can sit in judgement on others? How arrogant!

    If the SPLC is going to pass judgement on others then it should expect to be judged!

  10. Gabe
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    They should be held accountable for their attack on a child's civil right to a mom and a dad. Hate group indeed.

  11. Anna
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    If SPLC's proclamations as to who is or isn't a "hate" group are to be taken seriously, then including NOM on that list makes me question their motivations, credibility and judgement.

  12. adsf
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Exactly! Who are they to force their standards as to what's right or wrong on anybody? If being against gay marriage makes you a bigot, then I guess 56% of Americans are bigots.

    Seriously; being pro-marriage does not make you any more homophobic than being pro-choice makes you an advocate for killing babies.

  13. Don
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    I find it ironic that the situation with the SPLC is so similar to the stiuation with the Iowa Supreme Court judges! The only difference is that no one appointed the SPLC to the bench so they don't have any legitimate authority at all! Nevertheless, the SPLC seems to think that it has some sort of authority to render judgements. Who voted for that? It certainly doesn't derive any authority from the people!

    The judgements of the SPLC remind me of the witch hunts of yore. "Witch! Witch! Burn her at the stake!"

    If the SPLC is a "court", it's a kangaroo court! Never trust judges who hop! ;-)

  14. Lewis
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    adsf good points but the fact is the Mr. Marinelli was very highly associated with NOM, he runs the facebook page which NOM stated is their official source for communication, he was a head of many events, etc, so yes it is fair to associate him and the very vile things he has said, but that is likely why NOM wasnt named a hate group itself and SPLC removes groups from the list when they change, so if Mr Manelli is removed as a face of NOM so would its status as anti-gay (likely, but Mr Manelli is still heavily involved).

    To the point of just being opposd to same sex marriage that does NOT get you on the list as they have stated and made very clear their assessments. Any claims made as biblical or religious opposition will not draw you hate designation but when you use false information over and over and name call then you get placed there. It is not about the view because as you noted MANY groups have an anti view or pro view that is irrelevant to their hate assessment.

    And Don why is it sick that they (as they have always done, suddenly only bothering you now) do these studies and assessemnts to make people aware of groups that are not in fact promoting exchange of ideas or views but hate. It signals to people that they should double check before donating money or supporting certain groups because of the behaviours they engage in. These groups are still free to run but now poeple are aware of what they do and can then make an informed choice to support them or not. I mean if you moved to town and saw westborough baptist church was promoting "traditional marriage" would you not want to know what they engage in before you gave them money or attended some of their functions?

    And what is their authority? they do not have any, they are just another independant group who has taken on a role and are a resourse that you can either choose to use or ignore. But their influence and credibilitywould come from their history of action in the civil rights movements of the USA and their great impact in affording rights to groups as well as making poeple aware of the falsehoods and ill tactics used by groups such as kkk, westborough, etc. If you look at their reaosnings for the groups listed it is quite clear why they are on the hate list group.
    NOM is not listed as hate group, it is listed as anti-gay... do you really think that is a false assessment?

  15. Don
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    Lewis:

    As to why it is "sick", read everything I have written above where I have explained, in detail, what is sick about it. I am not going to repeat myself, as I have done in the past, because you fail to read everything written, Lewis!

    "Studies and assessments"? How about the same dynamic used by HRC; form your conclusion FIRST and then find "facts" to back it up! How much alike HRC and SPLC are!

    Putting a label on someone does not constitute "what they do", Lewis. It's a label that the SPLC has chosen to put on certain groups as a means of attempted social extortion, IMHO.

    Yeah, right, they are riding on their credibility from the civil rights movement. That's the problem, Lewis. The name has a history of credibility and that name is now being abused and misused to further something which is nothing like the civil rights movement.

    Lewis, do you REALLY think that NOM is anit-gay? If so, what makes you think that?

    Alright, Lewis, turn about is failr play. I hereby declare the SPLC to be officially designated a hate group. Why? Because they focus on hate! They are consumed with finding hate. They point their finger at others and label them as being hate groups. That is very hateful on their part!

    Lewis, do you REALLY think that people are going to check with the SPLC before donating to a church or organization? Do you REALLY think that the SPLC is a resource which people across this nation check with before they support an organization? Do you REALLY think that the average American gives a hoot what the SPLC thinks? Give me a break, Lewis! A label from the SPLC and five bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks!

  16. Lewis
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    First off Don, I must say you seem to be getting rather riled up about this. Frustration and anger are usually a sign that you are failing to defend your argument and are falling back on your animalistic behaviours because your higher faculties are not able to achieve your goals... getting under your skin?

    looking back your reaoning for saying they are sick is because they spend time focusing on hate groups... and now you claim that makes them a hate group? Then by your logic the fact that you are so focused on gay issues does that make you gay?

    Since you also seem to have trouble reading Ill repost my first statement here:

    "SPLC emphasizes that the groups it names are listed as hate groups because they are knowingly lying and spreading demonizing propaganda about gay people, and not for their views on homosexuality. However, so far, none of the groups named have responded to that claim specifically and have instead focused directly on the “hate group” designation, saying that comparing innocent traditional-value-upholding groups such as themselves to racist organizations is wrong"

    Since you are so opposed to the designations given, what exactly about the SPLC assessment is it that you disagree with? Is it the groups that go around name calling? Or the one that claimed hitler and the ss were all gays (disregaring the fact that gays were killed along with jewish people), or maybe the "church" that is trying to help push the Ugandan law to kill people for being gay?

    SPLC has been doing this list for decades now and thislist they came up with is from 3years of study of these groups tracking them for consistent trends not just one time events, Im not sure why you are so obsessed with HRC but Ive said many times they are not a credible organization so Ill say it again... and say that they have little to nothing to do with SLPC,
    And YES they do have credibility, look to ANY university (Harvard, NYU, McGill, UCLA, Texas A&M, etc) ALL use SPLC as their resource for civil liberties and hate speech classes and issues. The SPLC has and continues to be the leader in hate studies as even at my university in Canada we look to SPLC in our civil liberties class when looking at USA.

    And No... people do not look to SPLC before donating but their designaion makes people aware of that group. And if SPLC is such a useless organization as you say why do you care so much?

  17. Lewis
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Really Don, Im just asking you to respond to this statement:
    "SPLC emphasizes that the groups it names are listed as hate groups because they are knowingly lying and spreading demonizing propaganda about gay people, and not for their views on homosexuality. However, so far, none of the groups named have responded to that claim specifically and have instead focused directly on the “hate group” designation, saying that comparing innocent traditional-value-upholding groups such as themselves to racist organizations is wrong"

    Can you?

  18. Don
    Posted November 27, 2010 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Spare me the psychological analysis, Lewis, unless you are a certified behavioral health professional. If you want to know what my feelings are, ask me. I am the undisputed expert on that subject.

    Hitler got his idea for massive Nazi rallies from the cheerleading done at American college football games. "Cheerleading" was good when the colleges did it but bad when Hitler did it. The difference was purpose and intent. The purpose and intent of the SPLC is different now than it was and it has become a highly politicized destructive force.

    I really don't care what the SPLC says it's doing. It can say that it is promoting world peace. That's called "propaganda". What we actually see it doing is promoting a destructive and highly politicized agenda.

    The American people are quite capable of deciding for themselves who they choose to support and who they do not choose to support. We don't need a self-appointed "Committee on Political Correctness" to sort out the good guys from the bad guys for us. We'll make that decision for ourselves, just as we did with the Iowa judges!

    Hitler had the Jewish people to direct hate at. The SPLC has a much longer list. Demagoguery is demagoguery! "Heil SPLC!"

    Lewis, you are always looking for some "higher authority", OTHER THAN the electorate, to dictate to the American people what is right and what is wrong. First, it was the Iowa Supreme Court and now it is the SPLC. Understand this: It was The United States of America which led the way in ending monarchy and it's attendant abuses. We are a people who have empowered ourselves with self-determination and we will never give that up, no matter what the cost! We will NOT permit an elite ruling class to dictate to us!

    Your ideas about various "higher authorities" are anti-American, Lewis. Don't bother trying to peddle them here. We have faced the communists and we are now facing the socialists. We are well familiar with the various masks worn by tyranny! We see through them all and we see through the masks which you are holding up for us now, Lewis!

  19. Lewis
    Posted November 28, 2010 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Okay Don, so Ill take that as you are not able to address my point?

    This isnt a matter of voters or "higher authorities" this is an organization that has listed very specific reasons for placing certain groups on a list.
    You choose not to address those points (because you cant) and instead go onto a discussion about Hitlet and other unrelated points to try and distract from that fact that you have no substantial argument based on what the organization is and has always been and their VERY CLEARLY stated reasons.

    The fact is that groups that oppose same sex marriage are not hate groups because of their view but SPLC has listed some that for specific reasons are (do you disagree with any of their resons?)
    Do you disagree with the other groups they have listed? Or is it just now because groups you support are now listed? Doesnt mean you hate, but it means these groups engage in it.
    SPLC does a great deal of research with has greatly benefitted many.

    And OH YES! the anti-american argument... you are quite interesting Don, you claim that same sex marriage supporters view anyone that opposes their view as hateful. Yet fail to see that irony that you call anyone that opposes your view un-american, or hateful. Was SPLC hateful as you describe them prior to their listing these 16 groups? (keeping in mind that they have had several anti-gay hate groups listed for some time now) or are they just hateful now because NOM has told you to believe that SPLC is?

    Going to your comparrison about Hitler, it is when people stopped asking questions and getting information and just listening to their "higher authorities" that the Nazis were able to take over, perhaps you need to start asking more questions. Id ask you and people on this board to yes take the information NOM supplies you with as they are giving you information relevant to your obsession with gay issues, but try to be brainwashed and uninformed (as demonstrated on this board with people bashing SPLC for not listing westborough, which has been listed by SPLC for years now)

  20. Lewis
    Posted November 28, 2010 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    correction: *try NOT to be uninformed

  21. Don
    Posted November 28, 2010 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    ROFL!!!

    No, Lewis, not "un-american, or hateful", ANTI-AMERICAN!

    When the communists made their big push to recruit naive and idealistic college students across America, I was there. I debated the communists and debunked their clever propaganda. So what you are spewing isn't new to me, Lewis. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt!

    Underneath everything you have said on the pages of the NOM blog is the constant thread that American citizens should hand their power over to someone else. Not going to happen on my watch, Lewis! Let me share a story with you, Lewis.

    In Fort Ticonderoga, on Lake Champlain, is a museum. In that museum are glass cases with Revolutionary War items on display. In one of those cases is a knapsack which was carried by a citizen soldier who enlisted at the beginning of the war and remained in service for the duration, until the war was won. He fought in every major action of the Revolutionary War before returning home to work his farm, get married and raise a family.

    The red paint, which he had applied to the knapsack as a form of waterproofing, has long since faded away but the inscription he wrote upon it, before presenting it to his children as he was dying, is STILL clearly visible. It reads; "As long as this exists let no tyrant rule".

    This battle isn't really about homosexual marriage, Lewis. It's about an attempt to defeat and destroy The United States of America from within. Homosexual marriage is just a vehicle for accomplishing that end.

    We see how the courts have used homosexual marriage to test their ability to grab power by legislating from the bench. We have seen how state legislators and governors have used homosexual marriage to test their ability to deny American citizens the right to vote and to force upon them something which they oppose. We have seen the attempts by the HRC and the SPLC to practice social extortion.

    This country was founded in battle. It has been sustained through battle as one after another has attempted in vain to bring us down. This is merely one more battle in the never-ending war to preserve liberty and freedom.

    We shall not turn and run. We will take the battle to the enemy and, through the Grace of God, we shall prevail. America will be standing free and strong long after you and I are gone. God has willed it to be so and so it shall be!

  22. Don
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    You think yourself to be clever, Lewis. You are not. There is nothing in your tactics which I have not already encountered in squaring off with the communists who also sought to defeat this country from within. It's old hat!

    Your beloved SPLC is following EXACTLY the same strategy which the communists used. Infiltrate a credible organization then, just like a fisherman, put a hook inside the bait. The fish thinks that it's going to get a meal but it becomes a meal instead! It is called "the art of misdirection", the same art which magicians use to fool people.

    Those individuals and organizations which promote homosexual marriage are always crying, "Look over here! Look over here!" They want to keep us distracted so that we don't see what is REALLY going on!

    It's not about homosexual "rights". It's not about "hate". It's not even about homosexual "marriage". Those things are the the, "Look over here!", and were created for the express purpose of misdirecting people's attention away from what is actually happening.

    What is ACTUALLY happening? Iowa Supreme Court judges thwarted the will of Iowa citizens. The legislature and governor of Maine sought to deprive the citizens of Maine of their right to vote. A California judge, who was rebuked by BOTH the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals AND the U. S. Supreme Court, sought to single-handedly nullify the votes of countless thousands of California citizens. THAT is what is ACTUALLY going on! THAT is the net result of homosexual marriage activism and THAT is where our attention needs to be if we are to preserve our liberty and freedom.

    While homosexual marriage activists are waving their right hand around saying, "Look over here!", with their left hand they are putting to the torch The Constitution and the Bill of Rights. THAT is what the charade of homosexual marriage activism is REALLY all about!

    We are not deceived. We see through the misdirection of the magic trick! We clearly perceive what the real agenda is!

  23. Don
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    The communist propagandists who I debated were much more subtle and much more skilled at their deception than are you, Lewis. Most of them had extensive indoctrination and training. You don't have those advantages. Nevertheless, it was very easy to refute their false arguments.

    Communism sounds good on paper. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Wow! Cool! How simple and fair! The only problem is that it doesn't work that way in actual practice!

    The people of the Soviet Union were impoverished, oppressed and lived in constant fear of the KGB. While America had to limit the number of people entering the U. S., the Soviets had to forcibly keep people within it's borders. Those facts are the simple and ultimate refutation of communist propaganda. The same method can be successfully applied to refute homosexual marriage propaganda.

    Homosexual marriage activists, just like the communists, talk about noble things like "equality" and "human rights". How wonderful it will be for everyone if we have homosexual marriage! The problem, just as with communism, is that the reality on the ground doesn't match the rhetoric! What are the real, actual, tangible results which we see thus far from the pursuit of a homosexual activist agenda?

    The real, actual, tangible result of the pursuit of a homosexual activist agenda is that seven people in Iowa forbade Iowa citizens the practice of self-determination and dictated to them what their destiny would be.

    The real, actual, tangible result of the pursuit of a homosexual activist agenda is that the legislature and the governor of Maine sought to deny the people of Maine the right to self-determination through a vote.

    The real, actual, tangible result of the pursuit of a homosexual activist agenda is that one single man in California, wearing a black robe, is seeking to deny millions of Californians the right to self-determination.

    Where is the "wonderfulness" which homosexual marriage activists have been talking about? Where is the "equality"? Where are the "human rights"? What we see in practice is nothing at all like what homosexual marriage activists are touting in their propaganda! In fact, everything which has come thus far from the pursuit of a homosexual activist agenda is anti-American! How so?

    The United States of America was founded expressly to free people from being subjected to the arbitrary rule of a small, elite group of people holding all power. That is precisely why Americans were empowered with the vote, so that we could practice self-determination. The intent was that we would determine our own destiny rather than being dictated to. The actual results of the pursuit of a homosexual activist agenda have thus far been diametrically opposed to the most fundamental principles upon which this country was founded. The outcomes have been against American principles and are, therefore, anti-American.

    "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!" Your convoluted intellectual arguments are soundly refuted by the reality on the ground. There is no need to engage you in an endless debate regarding how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. We can go right to the bottom line and clearly see the actual results of the pursuit of a homosexual activist agenda and those results are anti-American.

  24. Gabe
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Lewis, on December 6th the Prop 8 appeal will be televised where the anti-american arguments purported by the homosexual agenda will be exposed for everyone to see. You will see communism in its purest form to deny the American people the right to vote. You will see appeals to emotion with distorted logic that the time has come to tear the constitution into thread bare scraps of meaningless paper. American will see what happens to a ruling by an activist judge, justice will come and truth will prevail.

  25. Lewis
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Don.... wow, thanks for the distorted history lesson and view into whats going on in your head… nice distraction from the issue (again)

    So you are not able to address the issue of SPLC other than to claim the communists are attacking and go on some random tangent...
    So how exactly have the “communists” infiltrated? (now it’s the communists, not just the gay activists?) Is your problem with their methodology in assessing hate groups(repeated known false claims and name calling)? Or that the activities that got these groups on the list were not in your view hate(the Nazis were gay, shorter life spans, that gays should be killed for being gay)? Or are you so far lost for argument that youre going to start talking about Nazis next?
    Im not sure if you were aware of SLPC prior to the REVELATION by NOM, or if you are even yet aware of the great work they do for the poor and homeless, immigrants, and many Americans, but perhaps you should look into it

    Essentially anything that goes against your view is communist, anything that helps anything except while, affluent, heterosexual, Christians is communism by your standards?
    So the NAACP, disability rights group, national organization for women (oh wait they are now the majority), or any group involved with affording benefits against what is voted for? I guess the homeless should fend for themselves? Disabled should find another way to get around? And the gays should pretend to be straight so that they can have kids then when the marriage breaks down because of the lie their children can just suffer?

    Well Ill leave you to that, exams are starting up so with studying, work and volunteer obligations and also facilitating the in from the cold program at my church its going be a busy couple weeks till Christmas. Ill continue to be involved in the real world actually helping people and trying to improve the world you can remain in 1988 when I was born fighting the Russians and trying to keep that status quo, I do understand that you say you were involved during the cold war era and that would have been a frightening time but you really should re-examine your world view (for your sake)

  26. Lewis
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Oh and since I probably wont be back on to say if before then: hope you all have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

  27. Don
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    LOL! Nice try, Lewis, but no cigar!

    Your strategy is to obfuscate. You want us to chase you around like chasing a rabbit through a thicket! No thanks, Lewis. We'll remain focused on the relevant facts!

    You can slice 'em, you can dice 'em. You can sautee 'em, you can fry 'em. But onions is still onions!

    The fact remains that as a direct result of the pursuit of homosexual marriage, one single individual in California stands against MILLIONS of Californians, telling them that they have no right to self-determination.

    The fact remains that seven people in Iowa stand in opposition to the majority of Iowans and told them that they have no right whatsoever to self-determination. The people of Iowa fired them for that! "Thank you but we won't be requiring your services any longer! Bye!"

    The fact remains that the legislature and the governor of Maine conspired, with malice aforethought, to come up with a way to deny the people of Maine their right to self-determination. They got faked out! NOM and others were on the case and facilitated the people of Maine in exercising their constitutional right to vote, thereby determining their own destiny for themselves.

    Communist, socialist, Nazi, the name doesn't matter. All of these are anti-American. They all hoped to bring America down. They have failed in the past and they will fail again now.

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck! Put whatever name you want on the anti-American flavor of the day. It isn't what they are called that matters. It is what they are attempting to do to America which matters!

  28. Don
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you too, Lewis! I hope that you get your mind right so that in the future we will still be able to celebrate Christmas and other religious holidays. Let us not forget that the communists called religion, "the opiate of the masses"! ;-)

  29. ewe
    Posted November 29, 2010 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    You are disgraceful filth and oh so deserving of being called a hate monger as well as an ignorant pig. You are so good at censoring reality that i have to challenge your dark soul to allow this in your own comment section. You are a dreadful human being who for some reason thinks gay people care one iota what you think of us. Well we don't and we will take you on and on and on until laws protect us from hateful bigots like you.

  30. Posted November 29, 2010 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    It irks me that I have to state the obvious; but you are a HATE Group. SPLC is just giving you enough rope to hang yourself.

    You just don't understand that civil rights cut both ways. It allows you to spout your religious bovine effluent that influences your views, and it allows me to marry the person of my choice. Pretty simple in a civil society. The thing is, you want an unbalanced society where the rights of one group trump those of another.

    But I've noted NOM's central tenet is the children. All of you at NOM are fearful that if kids find out that there are in fact gay people around and that those gay people are really no different other than who they love, that we LGBT people will become more acceptable.

    You abhor that fact so much that you'll all make the most ridiculous statements concerning the consequences for the children but yet you won't address Maggie Gallagher having a child out of wedlock, or better yet that you will not comment on childless couples be it age or other.

    It shows your hypocrisy regarding marriage and children. In essence it boils to the fact that you HATE LGBT people. That's right you hate us. You can put on your smarmy sweet smile and offer us drinks on a hot summer day, but at the base of it all, you're all haters. Every last one of you.

  31. Don
    Posted November 30, 2010 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    My but we are waxing eloquent this evening, LOL! Such nuanced elegance of speech, ROFL! ;-)

    Your revered SPLC lies. Is that who you hold in such high esteem, liars?

    If you click one of the links in the original post above you will be taken to the SPLC website where you will see this headline: "Gays Remain Minority Most Targeted by Hate Crimes" That is a flat out, bald-face lie and I can prove it to you.

    Go to the FBI website and look at the statistics for hate crimes. New statistics just came out and are posted there. Just as in the previous statistics, single bias hate crimes based on sexual orientation bias are no where near number one! Hate crimes against African-Americans are number one!

    The rate for single bias hate crimes based upon racial bias is 48.5%. Hate crimes specifically based on an anti-black bias constitute 71.4% of all racially biased hate crimes.

    By comparison, single bias hate crimes based upon a sexual orientation bias constitute only 18.5% of all hate crimes. Even hate crimes based upon religious bias, at 19.7% of all single bias hate crimes, are more prevalent than hate crimes based on a sexual orientation bias.

    DO NOT take my word for it. Google "FBI hate crimes" and look at the 2009 statistics for hate crimes yourself! Then come back here and tell me whether or not the SPLC claim that gays are the minority most targeted by hate crimes is true or false!

    If you actually look at the statistics for yourself, as I have done, you will find that it is blacks which are the minority most targeted by hate crimes, not homosexuals!

    I challenge you. Put what I have said to the test. Check it out for yourself. You will find that the SPLC is flat out LYING!

  32. Don
    Posted November 30, 2010 at 3:47 am | Permalink

    It is the FBI which is charged with the responsibility of gathering and reporting hate crime statistics, NOT the SPLC! The FBI hate crime statistics are in direct contradiction to the headline posted at the SPLC website claiming that gays are the minority most targeted by hate crimes.

    So are you, ewe and Tony P, now going to tell us that the FBI is an anti-gay hate group too? Has the FBI made it onto the SPLC's list of hate groups? Are you going to tell us that the FBI is wrong about this and that the SPLC is right? It can't be both ways you know. Either the FBI is wrong or the SPLC is wrong. Which is it?

    Does the SPLC have access to statistics about hate crimes which the FBI does not have? If so, what is the source of the SPLC statistics? Tell us where, precisely, the SPLC is getting it's information!

    The truth is very clear. The SPLC has chosen to ignore the FBI statistics and to fill the heads of those who visit their website with lies, which they have fabricated out of thin air, for the express purpose of promoting their illegitimate agenda.

    As I stated earlier, what we are seeing here is nothing new. The communists used to infiltrate legitimate organizations and use those organizations' credentials and credibility to promote their own nefarious agenda. It's deja vu all over again, as Yogi Berra would say! ;-)

  33. Don
    Posted November 30, 2010 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Gee, where have all the homosexual marriage activists gone, long time passing? Confront them with irrefutable FBI statistics, proving that the SPLC lied, and they scatter to the wind! Ain't that something! It's amazing what happens when the bright light of truth is shined into the dark recesses of the SPLC!

    The worst and most cynical manifestation of the of the SPLC's disregard for human rights is
    that while African-Americans are suffering hate crimes at the highest rate of all, the SPLC sends African-Americans to the back of the bus by falsely stating that it is homosexuals who are suffering the brunt of hate crimes! African-Americans are therfore unfairly relegated to the status of second class citizens while homosexuals are pomoted above them.

    Homosexual marriage activists are fond of attempting to ride on the back of the civil rights movement, seeking to use and abuse the struggles of African-Americans in order to further their own illegitimate "cause". The fact that the SPLC is willing to lie and to minimize hate crimes against African-Americans demonstrates that they have no problem whatsoever sacrificing African-Americans, trampling upon them and sending them to the back of the bus in order to promote their homosexual activist agenda.

    Is THIS the "equality" we have heard so much about from homosexual marriage activists? Is THIS their vision of "equality"? Is THIS what we will have if homosexual marriage activists have their way? Does their vision of "human rights" include sending African-Americans to the back of the bus once again?

    Homosexual marriage activists stand revealed as anti-American. They attack the most fundamental principles upon which this country was founded, seeking to deny American citizens the right to self-determination through voting. They infiltrate and abuse a formerly noble civil rights organization, the SPLC, and actually use it to make Afrcian-Americans second class citizens and send them to the back of the bus. They seek to turn back the hands of time and restore the abuses of monarchy. They seek to turn back the hands of time and once again shove under the rug hate crimes against African-Americans.

    Don't be fooled by the noble rhetoric of homosexual marriage activists. "By their deeds shall ye know them." Look at what they are actually doing and look at what they have thus far brought about in their pursuit of homosexual marriage. The discrepancy between what they preach and what they practice will become immediately apparent!

  34. Posted November 30, 2010 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Well Don, I can tell you I once worked in law enforcement and dealt with the FBI. They don't catch ALL the stats you think they do.

    But due to the efforts of groups like NOM, FRC, AFA et al, we LGBT folks are now the most hated group in America. That's a distinction I fight against every day.

  35. TC Matthews
    Posted November 30, 2010 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    The issue is marriage, not "LGBT" issues as you say. Changing the definition of marriage affects everyone, not just one small section of the population.

  36. Don
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    I give you credit, Tony P, for having the courage to reply. I also give you credit for essentially admitting that, according to the official FBI hate crime statistics, homosexuals are not the minority most targeted by hate crimes.

    I haven't researched which group is most hated in America, Tony, but the fact that hate crimes against blacks are more than 16% greater than hate crimes against homosexuals causes me to speculate that perhaps African-Americans are the most hated group. I'll admit that I could be wrong about that, Tony.

    You know, Tony, I have never heard any promotion of hate from either Brian or from Maggie. That is one of the reasons why I like NOM so much. Without doubt, there are those who hate homosexuals but I don't count the leadership of NOM among them. There is quite simply no place for hate and it is always wrong no matter who is being hated.

    Hi, TC Matthews! :-)

    As always, you make an excellent point!

  37. remick0
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    Don, I originally wasn't going to join this discussion because so far it seems to be a large fight over who the most hateful is and 'he said, she said' points, but there's something you said that irks me:

    >Communist, socialist, Nazi, the name doesn't matter. All of these are anti-American. They all hoped to bring America down. They have failed in the past and they will fail again now.

    So let me get this straight: You're trying to compare those fighting for LGBT rights with groups that you believe are trying to bring down and destroy America? And what's with your claim that the SPLC are attempting to undermine the rights of other minority groups?

    If there's one thing I want you to know, it's this: demonizing anything that you oppose is wrong, because it accomplishes nothing and further clouds your perceptions and understanding of what's really important. It must make you feel very sure of yourself when you imagine that all of your opposition are plotting behind closed doors to destroy everything you hold dear.
    What's important is this simple truth: those who disagree with you are human too, and they believe they are doing what's right. If you close your mind to anything they say because of the labeled box you put them in, you'll never reach an agreement (or at least a compromise), and isn't that what argument and discussion are all about?

    The sad thing is, it's so easy to see all conflict as 'us vs them' made easy with labels. Do you actually believe that morality and decency will be gone the day same sex marriage is made legal in all states?

    But I guess this entire discussion has become a hodge-podge of tangents, so if you don't want to respond then that's fine. But please think about it.

  38. TC Matthews
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    "those who disagree with you are human too, and they believe they are doing what's right. If you close your mind to anything they say because of the labeled box you put them in, you'll never reach an agreement (or at least a compromise), and isn't that what argument and discussion are all about?"

    I find it interesting to hear this particular argument when the entire thread has been about the ssm side demonizing the pro marriage side with the label of "hate".

    Just turn that entire statement around and apply it to your fellow idealogues. We are human too, just as you are. We believe in the unique relationship of marriage. We disagree that divorcing children and families from the institution of marriage is an improvement, no matter what your sexual orientation. There are more groups than the LGBT who want to redefine marriage. This isn't a fight with the LGBT, and has nothing to do with hate. In marriage, all are welcome, all are included, that is a right we all have. Redefining marriage has never been a right.

  39. TC Matthews
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    As far as compromise goes, I think the Salt Lake City plan is a good one. http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/21/salt-lake-city-solution/

  40. Don
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 4:52 am | Permalink

    remick0: It would be really nice if you both read and absorbed the entire thread before you post a comment. I am not going to go over the same ground repeatedly because you appear to have an attention deficit. Read the thread, remick! Nevertheless, I will address some of your points.

    remick wrote: "So let me get this straight: You're trying to compare those fighting for LGBT rights with groups that you believe are trying to bring down and destroy America."

    No, remick, I am not comparing those who are fighting for LGBT "rights" with groups which I believe are trying to bring down and destroy America. I am stating explicitly, unequivocally, that the methods being used by homosexual marriage activist in their pursuit of homosexual marriage ARE bringing down and destroying America. Was I not crystal clear about that? Was there something ambiguous for you in what I said?

    remick wrote: "And what's with your claim that the SPLC are attempting to undermine the rights of other minority groups?"

    Can you not read, remick?

    "The worst and most cynical manifestation of the of the SPLC's disregard for human rights is
    that while African-Americans are suffering hate crimes at the highest rate of all, the SPLC sends African-Americans to the back of the bus by falsely stating that it is homosexuals who are suffering the brunt of hate crimes! African-Americans are therefore unfairly relegated to the status of second class citizens while homosexuals are promoted above them."

    "The fact that the SPLC is willing to lie and to minimize hate crimes against African-Americans demonstrates that they have no problem whatsoever sacrificing African-Americans, trampling upon them and sending them to the back of the bus in order to promote their homosexual activist agenda."

    Exactly what is it in those statements which is unclear to you, remick? The SPLC lied, stating that homosexuals are the minority most targeted by hate crimes when it is, in fact, African-Americans who are most targeted by hate crimes. This is shoving hate crimes against African-Americans under the rug just as was done before the civil rights movement exposed the atrocities being carried out against African-Americans.

    remick wrote: "What's important is this simple truth: those who disagree with you are human too, and they believe they are doing what's right."

    No remick, that is NOT important at all. What is important are THESE simple truths:

    As a direct result of efforts to implement homosexual marriage in California, one single individual has dictated to MILLIONS of Californians that they have no right to self-determination.

    As a direct result of efforts to implement homosexual marriage, seven individuals told all of the people of the state of Iowa that they have no right whatsoever to self-determination.

    As a direct result of efforts to implement homosexual marriage, the legislature and governor of the state of Maine conspired to deprive the citizens of Maine their right to self-determination.

    THOSE are the important truths, remick! What is so important about them?

    The right to self-determination is the underpinning of our form of government and of all of our rights and freedoms. We declared our independence from England and fought the Revolutionary War expressly so that we could determine our own destiny instead of being dictated to by a small, all powerful, elite group.

    Now, remick, if you question again what I have said you will get exactly the same answers. My responses aren't going to be watered down because you repeatedly question them. I said what I said, I meant what I said and I'll say it as many times as necessary.

    Maybe you are used to people backing down when you hit them with the usual homosexual marriage activist rhetoric. Maybe you are used to people who are concerned about appearing to be politically correct. I don't back down and I am not in the least concerned about appearing to be politically correct. Sorry to disappoint!

  41. Lewis
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Alright well I am killing some time between class and thought Id see what was happening on here and Id just like to clear up some inaccuracies Don ;)

    First off to your FBI report, yes that is quite accurate, but you should also note that SPLC does not say that hate crimes against homsexuals are the number 1 hate crime but that homsexuals are most likely to be target of hate crime. And as they constitute approx3% of the population and make up 18.5% of ALL hate crimes, ya Id say that makes them the highest proportionate target.

    So exactly how has SLPC lied again?
    And can you address why you think that their assessments of the groups listed are wrong?
    Or would you like to give another rant about communism and distort some more facts?

  42. remick0
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Although my original post was more about getting my views off my chest and trying to douse the fiery vitriol in this forum, I guess I might as well join this discussion since both of you have taken the time to address my points and clarify your own.

    Lewis already brought this up, but I'll further explain. The SPLC did not say that LGBT were suffering the highest rate of hate crimes, they said they were more likely to be targeted in violent hate crimes. Let's say there are groups called A and B. Group A has 1,000 members and there were 500 hate crimes targeting them over a year. Group B has 50 members and there were 200 hate crimes targeting them over the same year. If you divide the number of hate crimes by the number of members in a group you'll be able to compare how likely it is someone in that group will suffer from a hate crime.

    500/1000= .5 for group A
    200/50=4 for group B

    When you do simple math it shows that the group with less people, even if there are less hate crimes against them, are more likely to be the victim of a hate crime. LGBT have a far lower percentage in the population than minority groups. So stop trying to claim the SPLC is lying, they're not.

    I'll discuss the other points raised after I've done some research.

  43. Don
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    As usual, Lewis, you are quite simply factually wrong in your statement. Here is the exact headline, verbatim, from the SPLC website:

    "Gays Remain Minority Most Targeted by Hate Crimes"

    Here is what YOU say that the SPLC said:

    "...homosexuals are most likely to be target of hate crime..."

    We are talking about what the SPLC actually posted on their website and NOT Lewis's interpretation of what the SPLC posted on their website. Do you think that you are an Iowa judge or something?

    No matter how you slice it, Lewis, it is a lie that homosexuals are the minority most targeted by hate crimes. Whether you want to go by percentages or by actual numbers, African-Americans are the minority most targeted by hate crimes!

    You know, Lewis, if you want to be part of the debate then don't bring up such ridiclulous and completely refuted garbage. You're simply wasting everyone's time and you'll immediately be blown off the page with the facts.

  44. remick0
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    >I find it interesting to hear this particular argument when the entire thread has been about the ssm side demonizing the pro marriage side with the label of "hate".

    The reason NOM is being labeled a hate group is not because they oppose ssm, that alone can not constitute an organization as a hate group according to the SPLC. They believe NOM is a hate group because an associate named Louis Maranelli sent out messages under the NOM logo that claim:

    Gay men are pedophiles
    Gay men have shorter lifespans
    Same sex marriage would lead to prostitution, pedophilia, and polygamy.

    What is irking myself and others is that instead of clarifying their position on these claims, NOM is simply denying the hate group designation. If NOM came right out and said that none of the messages that were sent reflected their views and opinions, they wouldn't be considered a hate group anymore.

  45. Don
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    What you don't know about communism, Lewis, could fill a book, LOL! ;-)

  46. remick0
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/splcs-intelligence-report-gays-targeted-for-hate-crimes

    Don, read the article. The headline is actually a little misleading, in order to shorten it they left the word 'likely' out. Now read the very first sentence of the very first paragraph.

    Unless you're seeing something different than me, it should say: "Homosexuals are far more likely to be victims of a violent hate crime than any other minority group in the United States"

    It says it right there, more likely. I can only assume that you judged it by the headline.

  47. remick0
    Posted December 1, 2010 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    TC Matthews

    I'm very glad that you gave me that link because it didn't seem like anyone in this discussion wanted to REACH a compromise.
    Although I just want to make clear that it wasn't my original intent to argue about the validity of ssm when I made my first post, I just wanted to diffuse the passive-aggressive rage and anti-american comparisons that Don was making. The tangent about ssm was just to give an example of what I thought, he thought, would bring down America (although the way he explains it makes more sense now).

    Thank you for being civil. I hope more GLBT activists learn about mutual commitments, because as long as it grants equal benefits then I see no problem with it.

  48. TC Matthews
    Posted December 2, 2010 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    Remick0, I'm not sure where you come from geographically, but the lack of interest in mutual commitments is enlightening, as is the lack of interest in domestic partnership laws such as were put into place in California. California gave same sex couples every right it had to give, making virtually no distinction between marriage and domestic partnerships. The word "marriage" was all that was withheld, but that was not enough. The whole world watched as rioters and graffitiers had their say in the wake of prop 8. As a Californian, I find this puzzling. I would not object to domestic partnership or civil union laws except that they create these back door routes to ssm in the courts. I hear all the time the idea that "we just want our rights!" but California gave same sex couples everything but the word, and it wasn't enough. Perhaps that is why mutual commitments is not taking off as widely as I'd hoped when I first read about it. It seems that the fight is not about rights after all, but moral recognition. The compromises have been met again and again with demands for more and more by the LGBT community. In my state they promised that all they wanted was equal rights, so we set up domestic partnership laws. They told us it wouldn't interfere with marriage, all they wanted was rights, but as soon as the domestic partnership laws were in place, LGBT activists took them to court to ask the courts to create same sex marriage in the law for them, arguing that separate is not equal. I support the mutual commitments legislation because it avoids the separate but equal scenario where activist courts can be tempted to legislate from the bench things never intended by the lawmakers and citizens. It gives rights without taking away from marriage.

  49. Don
    Posted December 2, 2010 at 4:18 am | Permalink

    LOL! You crack me up, Remick!

    There's a bold headline in blue stating, ""Gays Remain Minority Most Targeted by Hate Crimes". It's there! They said it! They said it in BOLD! They said it in blue! End of story! There is no getting around that. There is no denying it.

    Furthermore, gays can't REMAIN the minority most targeted by hate crimes because they weren't the minority most targeted by hate crimes in the previous set of FBI statistics on hate crimes either! African-Americans were the minority most targeted by hate crimes then too, NOT homosexuals. So in addition to lying about the statistics, they are also lying about the HISTORY of the statistics! Getting it wrong once could be an accident. Getting it wrong twice is no accident!