Parents and/or teens' wishes notwithstanding:
An unusual assortment of groups are beginning to express alarm over a bill moving through the California legislature that has sweeping implications for both free speech and family rights.
Brad Dacus, president of Pacific Justice Institute, is not mincing words. "I can honestly say this is one of the most outrageous, speech-chilling bills we have ever seen in California-and that's saying a lot," he said.
The main purpose of the bill, SB 1172, is to limit the ability of psychologists, therapists and other counselors to assist adult or minor clients with sexual orientation change efforts (SOCE). SB 1172 flatly bans SOCE for minors-regardless of the parents' or minors' wishes-and requires a new consent form for adults containing statements about sexual orientation that many counselors would dispute. The bill then creates significant liability for professionals who proceed with SOCE. -- Pacific Justice Institute press release
42 Comments
Hippocratic oath: First do no harm. That is why we have laws against quackery.
Does it also prohibit them from counseling pedophiles with unwanted attraction to minors?
overcameSSA.....wow.....what internalized hate you have. Just because you pretend to be straight doesn't mean that the happy gay people out there (I being one of them) have to do the same. I know its hard to wrap your mind around it but there are many people not controlled by the man written scriptures in which you base your life.
In other outrageous news, California is going to ban psychologists from counseling children how to stab themselves in the eye, even if they really want to.
Good question, OSSA. No.
From the article:
"The compelled speech and speech restrictions in SB 1172 are so extraordinary that even the California Psychological Association-which normally embraces LGBT rights-is opposed to the bill in its current form."
The inmates are now officially in charge of the asylum.
MrRovias,
Pretty sure it is already illegal to advise your patients to willfully hurt themselves. What this revised law will do is reverse common sense regulations and mandate psychologists remain silent when their patience request guidance as to how to avoid hurting themselves.
These sociopaths are demanding that everything that stands in their way of cultivating willing victims be deemed illegal. After all; how dare people fight back against the unwanted advances of sexual deviants?
I believe this is a compromise bill to don't flee/don't tell legislation originally proposed.
Why is this story here? I thought NOM was about the marriage issue. What has this got to do with marriage? Having this story here makes it look like NOM is nothing more than an anti-gay hate group and what this staffer says about the Calif. bill is not true. Read the bill for yourselves. All NOM is is a hate group to reinforce religious bias against gays and all anyone has to do is read the comments on this blog.
Elias, you are exactly right. NOM loses a lot of credibility by not staying on-message.
All these issues are interconnected. The legalization of SS"M" and...say...forbidding psychologists from helping teens with unwanted SSA are mutually reinforcing to one another. If you promote one, you also promote the other.
As mutability with regard to sexual orientation is often a key issue in debate about "same sex marriage", its entirely appropriate for discussion on NOM"s blog.
It seems hypocritical for leftists to want to ban this therapy for minors(if the description of the bill is accurate) would also likely support a minor's absolute right to an abortion, a sex change, and perhaps even assisted suicide. Whatever happened to that whole constitutional right to privacy thing?
Hadn't thought of it that way, son of Adam... I guess you're right. In the same vein, we should also prohibit alcohol, since people tend to experiment sexually while drinking. Will you join me in donating to a prohibition campaign?
Unless I'm mistaken, this bill just forbids the state from reimbursing for conversion therapy. It doesn't prevent a pastor from trying to "pray away the gay". Conversion therapy can happen, just not on the taxpayer dime.
Very true Scrounger. Plus most actual psychologists psychotherapists, psychiatrists, etc know that conversion therapy is actually both morally wrong and psychologically harmful. That's the reason for this bill, to protect children from harmful techniques that have been proven ineffective.
There are many success stories from conversion therapy; psychologists are only looking at one side of the data.
Heck, I converted myself without a stitch of harm, except, perhaps, that I'm more driven to help others convert.
Morally, it's wrong to deny someone the opportunity to be normal. Psychologically, the person seeking conversion has already decided he wants to change his sexual attraction, so i can't see what harm can come from trying. So, you fail, and find yourself in the same place you started. Happens with alcoholics all the time.
What's going on is the political forces are at work here, knowing that success in conversion therapy will reveal the truth: that homosexual behavior can be changed and that homosexual orientation can be changed. That makes a big difference when we're talking about whether marriage should be changed to accommodate same-sex couples or not.
I don't think that alcoholism should be promoted and encouraged by the government anymore than homosexuality, dn.
And Sean, whatever harm you believe is involved with reorientation therepy doesn't hold a candle to the harm homosexuality itself causes to those who practice it. Thousands of gays die each year due to the diseases that are spread by homosexual activity and the Center of Disease Control reports every year that the vast majority of new AIDS cases belong to homosexuals. Very impressive considering that gays make up only 2% of the population.
So there is no doubt in my mind that seeking conversion therapy is far safer than pursuing the homosexual lifestyle.
Good to know what YOU think, Son of Adam. Cause god knows, you know it all.
. "I can honestly say this is one of the most outrageous, speech-chilling bills we have ever seen in California-and that's saying a lot,"
Bingo.
The good news is these radicals have now reached the stage in their demonic agenda where they have overstretched.
Watch this bill go down in flames.
Even in Cali, it will never fly.
The radical hatred of freedom which underlies it will be more widely disseminated and help to expose the true agenda which underlies both this and the marriage corruption movement:
a profound, demonic, insatiable hatred of Christianity and Christian values.
Those living in CA, who believe in the sanctity of man/woman marriage, in chastity and virtue, must be the leaven in the loaf. They must be a light in the wilderness. Thank heaven there are those willing to do so.
It will a sad day, if people with SSA are forced to travel to Mexico to cure their addictions.
Regarding #16
Dear Son of Adam,
Does this mean that you approve of lesbian relationships? Lesbains have much lower rates of AIDS and some other STDs ( not sure if they have lower rates of all STDs) than either gay men or heterosexuals. It seems like you should be supporting lesbian relationships if your goals is to lower the number of STDs.
This legislation protects children from the advances of their parents when they are vulnerable. If the individual desires conversion therapy, they wait until they are 18 and can make that decision for themselves. Remember the goal of NOM is to protect the children. Why would they be fighting this if only due to their ultimate underlying desire to paint gays and lesbians as evil and immoral. NOM should be careful about treading outside of their stated mission, less they are shown for the bigots they truly are.
Lesbians have their own health risks, Susan, which also makes it a dangerous lifestyle.
Lesbians have the richest concentration of risk factors for breast cancer than any subset of women in the world. They have higher risks for cervical cancers. They are more likely to be obese. They use more tobacco, alcohol, and illicit drugs. Lesbians experience higher rates of bacterial vaginosis and hepatitis C. They have more than twice the number of male partners than heterosexual women (only 7 percent who identify themselves as lesbians never have sex with men). They are 4.5 times more likely to have fifty or more male sexual partners in a lifetime. They are three to four times more likely to have sex with men who are at high risk for HIV—homosexuals, bisexuals, and IV drug users. And they are six times more likely to • abuse drugs intravenously.
Katherine Fethers, et al., “Sexually transmitted infections and risk behaviors in women who have sex with women,” Sexually Transmitted Infections 76:345-349 (2000)
For a summary of lesbian health problems, see John R. Diggs, Jr. M.D, “The Health Risks of Gay Sex,” Corporate Resource Council, 2002, pgs. 5-6.
Wow for a people that profess to be "Gay" there is a lot of anger from them toward those that don’t want to have SSA. Conversion therapy does have some success and if it helps just a few people cope with their same sex attraction and help them feel better about themselves then why would you deny it as an alternative.
I am bisexual and live a straight life I am married and love my wife and family. I am faithful to my wife and do not practice any gay lifestyle. I have lived in the gay lifestyle in the past and found that for the most part people are miserable being gay. They flock to the youth and shun the elderly.
Older gay men usually lead very lonely lives. That is why they want to have legally binding agreements like marriage so that they will not have to be alone when they get old. They long for the stability of marriage, but Gays really are incapable of being completely monogamous. Every gay couple I know has at least one partner who is only pretending to be monogamous. It is in the nature of a dominate gay to want more than one partner.
Forgive my being blunt and using language that might offend others but a gay guy (in a stable monogamous relationship) said to me once that "every man is a bottom after 5 beers."
They truly believe that they can seduce any man into being gay. This gay guy that said this to me was in a bar trying to pick me up. And since gay men refuse to accept that men can be bisexual I guess if they can get a man to have anal sex they prove their point.
I left that lifestyle and never looked back I do not miss it and do not desire it. Do I have same sex attraction? Yes I do, I just don't struggle with it I accept that part of me and let it go. I do not indulge it. I accept that I am attracted to a man and then move on to something else much in the same way a man who is attracted to a woman, he appreciates that he finds her attractive and then thinks about something else. It is not a major distraction for me and my wife knows all about me.
She appreciates that she alone has my affections, and that she of all women in the world is the only one that can turn me on. Why would you deny someone like me that might benefit form conversion therapy from being truly happy just because it doesn’t fit your idea of what having same sex attraction can be? What a bunch of intolerant hypocrites you are.
Hey SOA, I actually read those studies you pointed to you pointed to.
Or more one, given that the second was basically a reiteration of the first. Of course, what you failed to mention is that it says within the study abstract itself that most of the diseases you were talking about were acknowledged as coming from drug use, not lesbian sex.
And of course there has never been a single recorded transmission of AIDS between women, the disease that homophobes like you absolutely love and adore.
And what is your point, Mr. Roivas? Homosexuality, after all is psychological in nature. And the studies done here seem to indicate that same sex attraction and activity amongst females and drug use is interconnected.
Also, if I hate homosexuals as you imply, why would I care that thousands of gays die each year of STDs because of your views?
And could you please cite anywhere on this blog where I even indicated that I "absolutely love and adore" AIDS?
Those politicians and activists who want to prohibit SOCE therapies should be held liable for the suicidal of those who want to be helped with their unwanted SSA and are prevented from getting help.
@mick32: I never met a person living the experience of homophilia and being happy. Those people living the experience of homophilia and prevented to get help from gay ideology banning SOCE treatments will be the victims of a new totalitarianism.
I beg to differ. For there will be legally acceptable help and cures open to those wanting to overcome their unwanted same-sex attraction. Its called a sex change operation. Counselors, therapists, psychologist and doctors are all free to help you on your way for when the time comes. (But of course they shouldn't be allowed to try anything as radical as changing ones sexual inclination.) Will the progress never end?
@Living Straight - Thanks for your testimony. You'll see I tell a similar story here. It's great to be authentically married with kids, isn't it? Such a shame that the homosexual activists are pressuring the psychological professions to deny such happiness to others.
Living Straight and OvercameSSA: if you're truly happily married in heterosexual relationships, why on earth do you spend so much time on this site? Trust me, my straight brothers don't know this site exists. Is it because we who live open, authentic lives threaten you? Do you fight gay marriage because if you had to force yourself to be straight in order to be married, you expect us to as well?
You wrongly portray the issue as being a private issue that shouldn't affect others.
We are dealing with a change in public law here - a law that would promote the corrupt moral viewpoint of the gay community to everyone else's children as the correct moral viewpoint.
Is that a private matter that can hurt no one?
Or, is that a public matter that can morally harm society?
Bob asks "if you're truly happily married in heterosexual relationships, why on earth do you spend so much time on this site?"
Because I believe that marriage is an important social institution that has been largely responsible for the stability and prosperity of our nation and the independence of our people from reliance on government. And I'm a smart guy who is able to communicate a fairly complex issue into basic terms that help educate those who visit here about the threat to marriage posed by the notion of so-called same-sex "marriage."
As one who has been on the homosexual side, as it were, and has since committed himself to authentic marriage with children; as one who has experienced the great joy of uniting with my wife and our children, I want to encourage those who struggle with same-sex attraction to break away and experience the same love of life and purpose that I have experienced through a complementary union with a wonderful woman. To experience the essence of what it means to be human.
This California we're talking about people. You know, the state that banned the open carry of unloaded weapons? Because governor Moonbeam thinks that an unloaded weapon is more threatening then a homemade zip-gun or a knife crafted from a bar of soap.
So now, children are allowed to have interal conflicts with themselves without any help at all. I wonder who the liberals will blame when these teens start hurting themselves. Oh I guess its those "intolerant" conservatives even though we're a progressive(regressive is more like it) state.
The people of California voted these idiots in and we get what we pay for. I'm trying to get out before this spawning pool of decedantcy is cast into the sea.
@eliasasm
Typical response from the left. You should understand that this isn't off topic at all. It's describing the social policies the left is undertaking in order to make their progressive views more acceptable.
This is leftwing social engineering at its finest.
So I'm curious. I don't want to attack anyone's views even if I disagree with them. So for the people who believe that conversion therapy works and that it should be available to those who wish to "change" their SSA, but who don't believe we are born gay, WHY are those people gay? By those people, I mean those who are gay but want to try conversion therapy to become "un-gay". If being gay is a choice, why would someone choose it if they don't want it?
Tess: you sum up the duplicity of their position perfectly: 1. No one is born gay (so therefore, it is a "choice"). 2. Gays should be allowed to have conversion therapy (why is this even an issue, if it's a "choice"?).
Tess -
Those who want conversion therapy weren't "born gay;" they were likely exposed to an event or environment that essentially created their homosexual identity. Similar to people who become religious whack jobs after joining a cult, many people have been indoctrinated into a homosexual lifestyle that is counter-cultural and they want out. Like the environmental factors that led them into the lifestyle, opposing environmental factors and therapy can help them relinquish the lifestyle, not unlike a cult member.
I am always amused when I tell my story and then get attacked because I dared to post on a site. Gays hate me more than they hate heterosexual couples.
I am happy and I love my wife. I oppose same sex marriage because it is designed to force churches to accept same sex couples. You guys won’t be happy with just having marriage you want to force all Christians to lift up your relationship as the only true happiness available. Why do you care so much what straight heterosexual people think about you. You want what we have but you will not be able to get it even if you succeed in ramming same sex marriage down our thoughts you will never have acceptance by society as normal and desirable. Straight people may tell you they accept you and they may include you in their society but they talk about you behind your back with the subtle bigotry of those are my gay friends aren't they cute together. Why not be content with the revolving door relationships that you have now.
Marriage is designed by God for those people that want to come together and Form a family, create children together and have a raise them to worship God. Your argument that elderly people and childless couples who never want to have children is just sour grapes. Yes they get to have a recognized union accepted by God and family that you are denied mainly because God made marriage to follow his plan for sexual happiness.
As I said in my earlier post from what I have observed Gays are usually the most miserable people I have known. They believe that marriage will give them acceptance and sanctify their relationship before God. But God doesn't sanction the relationship because it goes against his plan. This is not going to change just because you force us to accept Same Sex marriage. God doesn’t sanction certain relationships because he doesn’t desire them for his people. I know this because of my experience. I have attended a what the two gays hosting the event called a gay wedding (celebration of a civil union). The straights who attended came in normal dress that you might for a wedding the gays who came were dressed in costumes the like of what you would see at madrigals’. It was a Decadent irreverent display and the furthest thing from holy matrimony imaginable. I looked at this celebration of a civil union and thought this is what they want to bring marriage to. They will not be happy until they destroy marriage and make it decadent and reviled. This is their purpose for society because only when everyone hates God like they do can they be seen as normal. Only when all of us give in to our bassist nature, as they do, can they hold their head high and say “see you are just like me.”
They do not really want what we have it is too boring and mundane for their tastes what they have always wanted us to have is the decadence and degradation that they have so that they can finally find acceptance.
No thanks! I will continue to advocate for marriage and Christian values and pray for their ignorance and their salvation.
Tess, I don’t believe that same-sex attraction is a choice. I, like most people, believe that acting on the attractions is where the choice comes in.
A lot of times in these discussions, people present a false dichotomy: either someone is born a certain way, or it is a choice. It’s possible to believe that homosexuality is not an innate characteristic, but that people did not choose the same-sex attractions. There are many theories, yet the reasons why people develop SSA are relatively unknown.
I’m not sure if there will ever be a sufficient blanket explanation on the origins of SSA from either the “pro-gay,” or the pro-sexual orientation change, crowds.
SSA is not a choice, nor is it a biological predetermination. And I arrived at this conclusion merely by reading both sides of this debate. I’m not pretending to be an expert
Tess, what an excellent point! If it's a choice, unchoose it. Simple, end of story.
(I'm going to try to post this for the fourth time)
M.Jones writes "It will [be] a sad day, if people with SSA are forced to travel to Mexico to cure their addictions."
The proposed law only applies to licensed therapists. Religious organizations will (of course) continue to be permitted to offer whatever type of counseling they choose.