We're just about to hit 7,000 pledges over at DumpStarbucks.com. And my post at The Corner has generated more comments--121--than anything I've ever posted.
Stay tuned, we are in for a big ride with this thing!
I think the arrogance of Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz is key. How can anyone think it's in Starbucks best interests to endorse gay marriage in the state of Washington--or ask courts to overturn DOMA??
If you haven't yet, go to DumpStarbucks.com--and send your friends. Thank-you!
163 Comments
Meanwhile, there are 60,000 people supporting Starbucks.
WOOT! Good to hear!
http://sumofus.org/campaigns/thank-starbucks/
Closing in on 65,000.
Sigh, looks like Mags is on the wrong side of civil society... again.
Meanwhile, Starbucks stock soared today and over 60,000 people have signed a Thank You card to Starbucks.
I love Starbucks, what great products and wonderful inclusion.
Is there any way to see the names? I know for a fact that several dozen people have signed it with obvious fake names. I wonder how many are legit?
Sum of Us has 67,000 thanking Starbucks. KING5 in Seattle linked to their petition in their news story.
LOL... 121 comments, that is not a lot. And 7,000 pledges from people that I am sure will be at Starbucks within a month. I am also sure that Starbucks has more gay or gay friendly employees then you will ever get to sign such a pledge. I am glad you are passionate about something. But in all of your efforts all you do in strength our cause and support.
thanks you.
So how does it feel knowing that there are 10x as many signatures congratulating Starbucks for supporting gay marriage? Do you guys feel smart? You shouldn't. Think forward fifty years—history will not be kind to you stupid, backward assholes.
Arthur... nervous much? There are consequences to linking your company to controversial political stances.
Yay, we're up to 7,000 bigots and counting!!!
This is really something to be proud of! Where's the anti non-white people pledge site?!!
You know what I think is arrogant? Creating a pledge drive that promotes intolerance. You all missing the 1950's much?
Why won't anyone acknowledge the Sum of Us petition?
Are you kidding me?
Who cares if Starbucks supports freedom?
Why do you want to destroy the freedom God gave us?
Who cares if gay people want to get married?
Feed the hungry & house the homeless first, then get moralistic about marriage & sexuality!
You say you support the faith community. What about the multitude of Christians that support marriage equality?
I'm confused?!?!? Your the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) but you are opposed to Marriage??? Aren't you really the National Organization for Marriage Between a Man and a Woman but only if Married as the Same Gender they were Born as, or NOMBMWMSGBA.!!!! Hypocrites!!!
Starbucks Rocks! Way to go!! I loved they're 'candidly easy' decision to stand against bigotry. I been going twice a day since I heard the Q&A
@arthur - I know its scary when there's no legislator to be bought, no rogue liberal judge to rule, against the People who know what marriage is and don't want it changed.
I took my kids to Dunkin' Donuts today, and they LOVED their coffee drinks. Heck, I wish I'd done that before; it was whole lot cheaper than Starbigbucks.
LOL! You're getting your heads kicked in by counter-petitions... you are pathetic and washed up for not recognizing that homosexuality exists, has always existed, and that Man, not God, is responsible for this intolerance.
Why single out Starbucks, now that most big companies support equal legal rights for gays and lesbians?
You know what Dave? I'm tired of the government and now corporations telling me what I should think. I have news for you, tolerance does not mean "anything goes."
You call it tolerance, I call it mind control. Don't express intolerance of homosexual acts or we'll call the Thought Police on you.
It is interesting that about half the comments on The Corner are in support of Starbucks
So Starbucks has nothing to worry about then. Only half of their customers will make other overpriced caffeinated drink choices....
Starbucks has got another thing coming if they think they can look down their noses at people who believe differently than they do. I'm taking my business to where it's appreciated.
Eliminate those who signed up fake names to run up the total, eliminate those who signed up Muslim dictators and the like for fun, eliminate those who signed but will cheat and go there anyway, eliminate those who signed up but never go to starbuck anyway, and what do you have left?
"It is interesting that about half the comments on The Corner are in support of Starbucks."
Whenever Maggie posts there the hateful stalker trolls show up en masse.
Is this a confession on your part Reformed?
Reformed sure seems to know a lot about corrupting the numbers.
As an advertising specialist, I can tell you that this is a PR gamble at best for them. Companies like Starbucks spend millions of dollars to create positive atmosphere and name recognition. In just a few words, all of that can change. They already had to overcome the negative image driving all those mom and pop places out of business brought them. Telling people what to believe and figuratively calling people who disagree with their political stances "bigots" can't be good for selling coffee.
I'm surprised they'd try something like this. I had no idea Starbucks was so politically involved in the marriage issue. That sort of afterflavor just doesn't sit right with me. I'll take my business somewhere else.
The new website for Dump Starbucks does not work with IE9 Browser.
You rock, Maggie! Regardless of the outcome, there's something special about this moment. I bet a lot of our fellow marriage supporters can feel it, too.
Over 7,200 People! Wow! ? How about over 76,000 in support of Starbucks!?!?! Fantastic!!!
http://sumofus.org/campaigns/thank-starbucks/?sub=fb
It's nice to know that intolerance is in the minority here.
Will not buy anything else from you,Marriage is between ONE WOMAN and ONE MAN!!
Woot go Christian folk or ppl who believe marriage is sacred between 1 man & 1 woman
For anything else is an abomination in the eyes of God
If you feel otherwise look up abomination in the dictionary
You do not even have to give a name or zip code to be qualified as someone who has signed this silly pledge. It is nice to see however NOM show their desperation ! Great work NOM !
Remember to email Safeway, Food Lion , Harris Teeter and Kroger to not to serve starbucks products.
It looks like the site has been hacked to sign up for the petition. But I guess I will be dumping some Starbucks drinks and avoiding it from now on. Marriage is a sacred union and not to be remade by some 'modern' idea that changes every other year. Have whatever relationship one wants but calling something that is not marriage by a confiscated name will not make it happier.
sumofus.org has over 80,000 in support of Starbucks in only 24 hours for their thank you card.
36,000 have signed on in support of Starbucks.
Great to see lots of new names here in support of marriage. The Dump Starbucks campaign already is proving successful in educating and energizing the masses to "wake up and smell the coffee".
It sounds like a lot of people are surprised to learn how Starbucks' has been thumbing its corporate nose at them and their values. Stick around this blog and you're going to discover a whole lot more that you'll want to know about and share with others. Please continue to let your voice be heard.
Yes, Resist, Dunkin' Donuts is a great alternative - their coffee is just as good (if not better) and their donuts are superior.
Dump Starbucks, Go Dunkin'!
Be sure to boycott Microsoft, too, since they have the same policy as Starbucks.
Make it 60,000.
7,000, WOW. Only 75,000 more an you'll catch up to ONE of the campaigns thanking Starbucks for supporting equality: 0http://sumofus.org/campaigns/thank-starbucks/
Did Maggie even hear the response of the shareholders present? It was like a standing ovation after CEO Schultz gave NOM a very eloquent smackdown.
All the more reason to take your dollars elsewhere.
Thanks moderator for keeping this an open forum...
Interesting- you're happy about 7000 signatures. Did you notice that the petition thanking Starbucks has over 85,000! That's more than 10 to 1 supporting equality. Interesting, but not surprising. The tide has clearly turned.
And a pleasant one!
Those approving/thanking Starbucks at 80k+ and counting...
http://sumofus.org/campaigns/thank-starbucks/
I'll keep my eye on the stock price and quarterly earnings.. so far, so good for Starbucks.
Have you seen how many people have signed the "Thank you Starbucks" petition in only 24 hours? Read and weep NOM.
@sylvatica
It isn't a race. When the unions held their 10.2.10 rally to counter Glen Beck's rally they said they had twice the number of Glen Beck(who was reported to have well over 300,000). The union rally had just under 100,000.
Just sayin.
"Starbucks has got another thing coming if they think they can look down their noses at people who believe differently than they do."
You tell 'em!!! That's NOM's job!
How many customers does Starbucks have? How many pro-SSM people will purchase coffee there out of thanks? And how many people have signed your petition? Mhm. Ok.
Let's see....
Thank You Starbacks petition - now has over 90 000 signs.
NOM's Dump Starbucks... still hasn't gone beyond 7000.
*chuckles*
Gee Maggie, what happened to "We understand that good people can disagree, even on extremely important moral issues?"
Starbucks made a critical and damaging choice by supporting the homosexual agenda. And the most major move is letting the world know.We will stop SSM,and thanks to NOM,Starbucks can no longer hide.Any more questions ? The conservative movement is here to stay. Get used to it. Obama and his freak parade will be stopped !
So glad NOM are doing this ... What about microsoft and apple next ?
Just signed the Thank You Starbucks page -- 80,000 "& Counting!" Maggie, you are becoming a liability to your hateful cause.
NOM has already lost just like in New Hampshire where Brian Brown said it would be an overwhelming victory. It was overwhelming thanks to NOM.
Let's see...7,000 is about 0.001% of their daily customers. Yeah, that should do it.
Is the side supporting Starbucks concerned and promoting to publish their signatories? I've heard it mentioned a few times on these DumpStarbucks entries that the SSU promoters are concerned about validity, but only on DumpStarbucks part. Does not your ethics pertain to your side too?
On NOM’s anti-Starbucks website, the group suggests alternative coffee shops to patronize. However, many of its suggestions, including the popular West Coast chain Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf, have either voiced support for gay rights or are actually owned by LGBT individuals.
then I guess we should stop the double standard then. churches are not being neutral in social issues either. so, I propose a boycott of churches as well. but seeing as how that will not happen. then I will continue to drink my Starbucks, shop at home depot, and use my computer which runs on Microsoft Windows. fun fact: people only boycott things when the camera is pointing at them. people would normally say snakes and crocs are deadly and dangerous, but put it on tv, and the same people will poke and prod and probably do something stupid, just to make it worth watching. that is what this boycott is, a bunch of people trying to boycott a multi million dollar corporation and thinking that their opinion means something. well.... it doesn't, because people are hypocrites who will sign a boycott but still drink the product they boycott. I'm just not naive like some to think otherwise.
I love Starbucks!!
Really sad to see this action. For every pledge you have there will be at least two who will visit Starbucks. If you focused efforts on persuading those who who are married to stay that way and if you are so convinced of the validity of your arguments then I would think that making divorce less simple would be a better agenda. BTW Shane Mahaffy had got it right, the LGBT community are in all organisations, so moving your business to other coffee locations doesnt punish anyone. I went into a Starbucks yesterday and asked if the action was affecting them, and it appears to them that they have got busier since our negative campaign as people are coming because you have made such a hullabaloo.
These type of endeavours nearly always build slowly and then grow exponentially over time. The real problem for corporations that make these types of errors in judgement is in trying to convince those customers who left to come back; a nearly impossible undertaking.
We are creatures of habit.
That means NOM should to their research. And did they also know that Microsoft and Google both have openly supported same sex marriage? I think that calls for a Windows, Bing, and Google search boycott!
Half of Starbucks customers are against gay marriage? That is a lie. Stop spreading hate. Try spreading love. Liars. Haters. Glad I won't see you at Starbucks.
Hey, did you know that your hosting provider, Rackspace, has a nondiscrimination policy that includes sexual orientation????
@Bryce - Instead of wasting your time here, why don't you seek out a therapist to help you resist your same-sex attraction? You're young enough that you can still relatively easily correct your sexual confusion.
If you'd like to discuss, let me know; I've overcome my same-sex attraction.
Hey Bryce - What sports are you playing these days? If none, you should consider one, instead of spending a Saturday morning posting about changing marriage. I mean, seriously, you're worried about marriage at your age?
I'm assuming you don't have a father around to help you find your masculine side. You might want to consider looking into the Big Brothers Association. Seriously, you're on track to miss out on all of the great virtues of being a man!
Dear NOM-thank you! For a while now, I haven't been to Starbucks because I'm a student and can't really afford it. Thank you for reminding me why I love them-for their tolerance, acceptance, and generally chilled atmosphere! I'll be sure to pop in for one of their lovely Frappucinos this week
Thanks for letting me know about Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf- they're out.
So.... anybody know whether Peet's is OK?
Certainly agree, btw, that we will have to expand the boycott as tactical circumstances allow.
The culture wars, after all, have come down to winner take all.
I will now be drinking more Starbucks than ever.
The petition thanking them for supporting marriage equality is at 105,000.... and counting. Good luck catching up.
Peet's supports SSM. Dunkin pays full same sex partner benefits.
NOM, be sure to do your homework for alternatives to Starbucks. And don't let up, no matter what... It's a do or die moment for Starbucks...
Bryce K @ 31, two words-domino effect...
You can always find a good supply source of coffee beans (one that fits your ethics) and brew your own fresh cup of joe. Invite a neighbor, friend or family member over to share and let them know why you aren't supporting businesses such as StarBucks etc. You'll also save quite a bit of $ while you are at it.
Scrounger:
Please provide us with the source for your information.
Why should one care what others do to be happy? There are more important problems in this world. If you are going to boycott starbucks, do it because they are on every corner and force us to drink more coffee. Rich, delicious coffee.
Interesting how there are more signatures in support of Starbucks than against it, and that both business and the stock price is booming for them. You are good advirtisement for them!!!
9000 names is a lot of names, but I hear there are 70,000 names on the petition to support Starbucks, so you have got to figure that perhaps they are catering to a different demographic than those with the NOM perspective. It is highly unlikely that SB choice to support what for most is a civil rights issue, is going to seriously damage their business.
I was kind of wondering by the way if that is a relatively recent photo of you Maggie. Sorry to hear that you were left standing at the mike during the meeting. I didn't see you standing there in the video clip.
Companies can pay benefits to people and their dogs, I don't care; that's a business decision. When they take a political position wherein they say people should be able to marry their dogs and it's a core value of their organization, then they've taken on the role of a political organization. They've become political operatives. At that point, it's like donating to a man-dog love association.
Starbucks has chosen to officially brand itself as a homosexual coffee bathhouse.
It's important to remember that this isn't about how Starbucks (or any other company) chooses to treat their employees. It's about them using their corporate influence and our money to change the law and redefine marriage. And it's about them taking a corporate stance on a divisive social issue, thus alienating over half their customers.
Wow 16,000 out of almost 7 billion people on the planet. That's just such a statement. It's almost amusing to see you guys constantly try in a battle you're going to lose. But oh well, at least you're trying, it's admirable in itself to see someone keep trying.
Oops! A little update here. The numbers are now 16,000 to Dump SB and 107,000 to say Thanks to Starbucks.
I kind of think the average American sort of likes the SB ambiance, perhaps more so than the actual taste factor.
If I order a cup of Starbucks is supporting gay marriage, I'd buy two cups everyday till it's legalized on nationally.
-sincerely a straight man living inthe 21st century.
Not all the 7 billion people drink coffee or buy Starbucks products, so you can't include this in any percentage factor of Starbuck consumers.
The Thank You Starbucks campaign is trouncing NOM. Once again, humiliated Maggie has shot herself in the foot. You should get those two hundred "One Million Moms" involved.
I'm sorry you take such offense to being called bigots but perhaps you should take a moment out of your hate filled crusade a take a peek at a dictionary. That's like a wood worker taking offense to being called a carpenter. Starbucks is just calling them like they see them. I've never been a Starbucks customer but I certainly am now.
This is great news! 7,000 folks standing up for righteousness and counting...
I'm going to go shopping at JC Penney and then grab a strawberry frappe at the Starbucks across the parking lot.
I am glad those companies support marriage and dignity for all.
Sean: seen, 'it's admirable in itself to see someone keep trying.' We would say the same about your position.
The petition is a formal letter to Starbucks with names and addresses, saying: if my pay for a coffee at your company is going to support lobbying against my belief system, you will lose my patron-ship. I will stand my ground. You don't want it, anyway? I will support your competitors, who may employ homosexuals and that's fine with me. Homosexuals also have to eat and make a living, and some are good contributors to society and sensitive people. The reason we don't automatically criticize homosexuals is because it is impossible to discern who is and who is not (can't go by hearsay). It's stupid for Starbuck's senior staff to turn a service company into a political machine. All their competitors have to do is sit still, say nothing, and a hoard of new customers will find their stores. Once they see other chains can make excellent coffee and serve it with great customer tact, it will have its effect. Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf also provide nice rest-rooms for the consequence of a diuretic intake
But there is no question that Starbucks has an excellent coffee product. I just think the caffeine content is too high, and i think they see that creating coffee addicts out of their customers assures them continuity of sales. Check out the thick book "Caffeine Blues" to see the negative aspects of caffeine overdose (>300mg per day), which i am exceeding as i write... And there's scientific meetings calling coffee the next corporate manipulation of a habit-forming commodity, like tobacco companies did. But, no way Dunking Doughnuts coffee is any comparison to Starbucks. Starbucks Americano coffee really gives you a buzz !
You silly ignorant fools, religion is not the source for marriage. Marriage has been practiced in many cultures for many centuries before judeo-christain influences. Keep you're "magical" gobblitygook & superstitions out of government as the founders intended.
You people are nothing but disgusting bigots. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
M. Jones,
Do you mean, "17033" folks? last time I checked...
I already knew about Starbucks and was boycotting them. Now I'm working on other people.
Starbucks can't replace lost customers with existing customers, so they'll lose sales.
The website's great. I signed the petition, called Starbucks' National Complaint Line, and called the four nearest Starbucks to my house in about two minutes. It's fun because they have to be nice to you.
I use Firefox. I downloaded OpenOffice. Yahoo! Search works fine. Macs are better than PCs, because of all the viruses that use Windows to get into PCs.
There's nothing special about Starbucks. There are lots of alternatives.
Nearing 117,000 in the petition thanking them. And unlike yours, that one is run by a third party petition site so the numbers can't be artificially inflated.
Coward moderator, picking comments friendly to your view. Cowards, just like NOM.
You have lost, NOM, accept defeat. I love how you waste money on lost causes, or fill the bank accts of Brian and Maggie.
sylvatica:
Heh heh heh.
Just what we heard in Cali, before we rolled you on Prop 8
Good one, Rick (fist bump)
@sylvatica
If the conservative movement just accepted defeat on every "lost cause" we fought for then we'd all be under the iron fisted rule of Hitler, Stalin or Tojo.
Thanks so much for keeping thirteenth century morality alive! It is great to witness the end of an era, I just hope I am alive to see the first atheist president. No thinking person who was not brainwashed in youth can possibly believe any of your nonsense.
The pro-Starbucks group has collected 120,388 signatures. The trend I believe has been established. NOM should stop this before they embarrass themselves further. NOM's boycott is noticed by no one, including Starbucks.
Zack: You see, we put NOM in the same group you claim to be fighting against. Your iron-fisted rule is religious dogma. Ours is freedom and removing the governmental restriction to civil marriage based upon gender. We want more freedom. You want religious control in our secular government.
LIttleman,
We can agree to disagree...you think Starbucks has great coffee; I HATE their coffee. And, it is not their coffee content that's the problem, its their roasting method and how long they roast their beans, which gives it that nasty harsh taste. As a business major, I've seen their portfolio, and have a good understanding of their business model. I can say this with confidence, it is not their coffee that has brought them the success they enjoy today... There are several other premium roasters topping Starbucks. Starbucks competitiveness in the coffee market is in the retail business, because they can't rely on just trying to sell good coffee like Green Mountain Roasters. This is why this Boycott will be successful because their stores are just a front for a below beverage coffee product... Their just selling an IDEA to consumers ( their store environment) not a good product... When their retail sales crash, it's bye bye STKs...
Although compete with other brands in the grocery store, they're not know for their wholesale operation. In regards to their wholesale coffee, don't forget to get the word out to others not to buy Starbucks coffee from the local grocery store, either..
Zack (#50) - That is an interesting trio you picked as anti-conservatives? Tojo was definitely a conservative Japanese leader. One could argue whether Stalin was a conservative or not...my argument would be that he was much more conservative than Lenin and turned the USSR from a true communist country to a totalitarian state. As for Hitler, he has more in common with the right-wing in Germany than the left.
Thanks for the idea...I haven't been to Starbucks in a while. I guess this gives some incentive to frequent there more often now.
@Zack
"If the conservative movement just accepted defeat on every "lost cause" we fought for then we'd all be under the iron fisted rule of Hitler, Stalin or Tojo."
Might as well throw in Mussolini too, eh?
Any guesses as to what the modern social "conservative" movement and those dictators listed all have/had in common as is pertains to homosexuals being allowed equal rights? Looks like y'all fascists would have fit right in line with each other actually.
Signed, sealed, and delivered. I believe in the one true God and cannot in good, faithful conscience support a company that is against my religious and moral beliefs. God first.
17,384 -as of 6pm Sat. 03/24/12) x family avg of (4) could mean in excess of 69,536 people x 5 (1 cup ea mon thru fri) = 347,648 cups per week x $3.50 (avg) = $1,216,880.00 per week defict x 52 weeks = $63,277,760.00 annual loss all achieved in the first two days of the boycott.
And they tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so on, and so on...
Like I said earlier:
"These type of endeavours nearly always build slowly and then grow exponentially over time."
When businesses chime-in in opposition to the will of the people we the people get to vote with our feet; and we get to cast that vote every single day.
You just can't put a price on that type of empowerment.
Funny I think you are losing the war people. At last count - the thank you note to Starbucks is at 138,536. Hatred is not a Christian value.
Thank You Starbucks now has 148,000 signatures.
Dump Starbucks.... a mere 17,000.
Sorry guys - but this is a lost cause. Indeed, it should be pointed out that the stock price of Starbucks has increased steadily ever since this proposed boycott. The publicity you have generated, plus the accidental galvanised support from pro-equality individuals you have created...... has now lead to Starbucks being in a much better position than before.
In short - this boycott has backfired spectacularly.
So is the duke in charge of NOM still seeing that keenly from the Log Cabin Republicans?
Why are you so afraid? Is your hubby gonna leave you for the pool boy? How is this hurting you? I think a bigger problem is unemployed and homelessness. Work on that you tea party freaks.
Actually, ResistSSA, I'm currently playing soccer on my school's varsity team this spring. And I come here to post because it amuses me. As for why I'm interested in marriage at my age, it's because I'd like to have the right to marry the person I love once I reach that point and find that person. Oh, and lastly, you're dead wrong about my father. But that probably won't matter to you; you already have your assumptions and an online personality like myself won't help change that.
Close to 170,000 on the "thank you" petition. Good luck trying to catch up.
Close to 170,000 on the "thank you" petition. Good luck trying to catch up!!
We will not tolerate an international company attempting to force its misguided values on citizens.
It is this statement by Mr. Brown that had me roaring with laughter.
Maybe you would be better served boycotting Costco, which supports the Democratic Party or Wal-Mart who supports the Republican Party or any company that believes it's okay to divorce. Every corporation I know of seems to support an agenda of some sort & I do believe your work is cut out for you.
As for me, your campaign has actually made me want to support Starbucks even more & I'm encouraging all my friends to do the same. I'm not gay, by the way...I just happen to be intolerant or intolerance.
Bryce K,
You should probably stick to your schooling, and listen to your parents, and don't even think about getting married right now, especially someone of the same sex. Go to church, attend to your studies and stop thinking with the little guy below...
Maybe you would be better served boycotting Costco, which supports the Democratic Party or Wal-Mart who supports the Republican Party or any company that believes it's okay to divorce. Every corporation I know of seems to support an agenda of some sort & I do believe your work is cut out for you.
As for me, your campaign has actually made me want to support Starbucks even more & I'm encouraging all my friends to do the same. I'm not gay, by the way...I just happen to be intolerant or intolerance.
Marriage licenses are issued by the state, not the church. No religion is necessary for a marriage to be legal, valid or recognized.
Thanks, NOM, for publicizing this. I was able to express my own opinion in favor of Starbucks here: http://sumofus.org/campaigns/thank-starbucks/?sub=fb
Maybe other "in favor" posters could too. Interesing that there's well over 10x more support on that petition, which began in response to this one.
As for me, I'll keep loving others because of their differences. Especially when that difference is as meaningless to my life as how 2 consenting adults choose to conduct themselves sexually.
The Thank You Starbucks site has 170,000 signatures.
ResistSSM, I'm always curious as to why the "faithful" automatically associate being gay with wanting a man-on-dog relationship. I personally have never met any gay person that wants to have sex with animals but have met quite a few straight guys in rural areas that had their first sexual experience with farm animals. In reading your comments I have my answer, your still trying to deny what you feel inside because you are a person that believes they are an "ex-gay". Fascinating.
@Bryce -
Glad to hear you're playing varsity soccer. I hope you're being honest about your father.
I think you're probably struggling with your sexuality. This is a key point in your life, and you do have a choice, notwithstanding what your gay buddies might lead you to believe. There's a better, more fulfilling existence out there, and trust me, calling yourself "married" to a dude isn't going to make things any better for you. Why imitate heterosexual relationships when you can actually have one?
@skooter -
Why dogs?
Because to those of us participating in this marriage debate, the notion of guys wanting to marry guys is as crazy sounding to us as a guy marrying a dog sounds to you. And, the guy-guy scenario has more in common with the guy-dog scenario than than the male-female scenario:
Men and women form couples because it takes a male and a female to procreate; that's the natural state of things, the complementary nature of male female that has led and leads to the stability and perpetuation of the civilization. That is why marriage exists.
There is no reason for same-sex people to form pairs ( it is mere imitation of heterosexuals) since they do not procreate and their anatomy is not complementary. Its artificial and meaningless to society. "Love." the reason touted by homosexuals for marriage is not limited to one other person, nor is it limited to people. That's why the owner-dog analogy is used. That, and the fact that there are people who have "married" their dogs.
I love people who hang their hats on the word "denial," as if we have no control over ourselves. It's a rather pathetic way to go through life and leads to self-pity and demands for others to pity them because they were born saddled with a burden.
I think homosexual men deny the fact that they were born men and are designed to form unions with women. That makes a helluva lot more sense to me than some unchanging mental state that you seem to think we all have.
To Resist SSA: Are you saying that the only reason for marriage is to procreate? Where does that leave couples who aren't able or choose not to procreate? Should they not marry or be allowed to marry? In these cases, what would be the foundation for the marriage. I personally would marry for love, not children but apparently you see it otherwise.
What disturbs me the most about this whole debate is why does it matter to some of you whether or not gay people get married. I would really like to know what actual impact it has on your life? We've had gay marriage in Canada since 2005 & so far, my family has stayed intact, some of my friends are still procreating, our economy is doing well, & contrary to popular belief, all hell has not broken loose..
I can't help but wonder how many gay men or women you actually know. If could inch past your revulsion & really found out what it is like to be a gay person...you'd probably revise most of your comments..
I've seen first hand the damage that is caused in marriages when men (or women) try to be something other than who they are, Many people "deny" that they are gay, only to find out years into their marriage that they definitively are. We all know how well denial works by taking a closer look at The Catholic Church.
I appreciate your explanation of the dog theory but maybe to a gay person, sex between a straight couple appears to be the same way. That's no reason to deny you your right to marry.
If you had a degree in biology, you'd discover just how many species engage in homosexual activity.
I'm always amused when people believe that God created every minute thing under the sun, except for gay people.
I just keep wondering how many people God has to create before we learn that he is well pleased with all the diversity.
Now it will say Party A and Party B instead of Husband and Wife. We must stop the gay agenda!
It is clear there many NOM supporters hold their extreme and self righteous religious values the same way a certain group of 19 men did. They were mostly from Saudi Arabia... came to the US in 2000... and subsequently crashed 4 planes in to various targets on September 11, 2001. They believed their faith based action would put them in favor of Allah and in paradise with 72 virgins. This issue is 'jihad' for NOM members. A crusade of sorts.
Boy, the ignorance of these posts is astonishing. Resist, you might be the worst, but there's tremendous competition. You really, deep down believe all that you say? Really? Are you all that far far removed from reality? When ssm becomes legal, whether soon, or a number of years out (and it will), what ever will you all do?
You people are such idiots! When will you realize that people can and should marry who they are bound to! Gary marriage is not wrong. Starbucks is right! Freedom of speech and freedom of marriage to who you love is the way it should be. Marriage 'is' sacred.
Supporter of Gay Rights and Marriage
Stefan, what ignorance do you see in the posts? Please be specific and enlighten us?
The thought that people can overcome their sexuallity as Resist claims, the thought that there's such a thing as a "gay agenda" or, even more so a "gay lifestyle". There are 18,000 same sex couples currently legally married in CA, not to mention the thousands in other states, and in other countries. How do they negatively impact, or impact at all, your and my straight marriages? How?
You do not need to be married to pro-create. You can pro-create and not be married. Same sex couples can be wonderful parents, often adopting children abandoned by heterosexual parents. Gays do the same thing as heterosexuals, they work, pay taxes, get together with friends, raise families, go to the movies, the list goes on and on. And yes, engage in intimacy is included. If it's something you can't stomach, then quit thinking or worrying about it. But I ask, do you know any same sex couples, either with or without children? Any, at all? Do you really think that allowing them to marry is going to be the end of all end? Yes, gays are promiscuous, of course they are, but no more than any straights are. People talk about how special marriage is, and I agree, but my marriage to my wife will always mean more to me when it's something all couples can take advantage of. If you think it's immoral, fine. Leave it at that. Marriage has gone through many changes over the centuries, keeping up with the social acceptances of the current times,and this is just another example. I'm not trying to insult any of the regular posters here, but I honestly just don't get it. Seems so toxic to me when there's so many real problems in the world.
Moderator, please post my response to Northerner.
Bryce,
I can tell through the computer that you are fatherless and effeminate. Perhaps you should try learning to spit and belch. Have you ever watched Die Hard? I think that movie will help you become more manly. Once you become a real man, you will start being attracted to women. It's all very simple, see.
And Rick's comments on being rolled on prop 8. Sure Prop 8 was voted on by a 52/48 percentage. Hardly "rolled". Nonetheless, it happened. It was then struck down as unconstitutional and is currently, as we all know, pending in the courts.
It may end up in the SCOTUS, and we'll all see. Although I could be wrong, I'd bet if it happened today, it wouldn't pass, not that it even matters. My point is that public opinion is changing.
And if you're asking me to explain the ignorance within these posts, Just look at Michael C's last one.
Stefan
I believe Michael C is one of your fellow travellers engaging in a bit of sarcasm.
@Stefan
"You do not need to be married to pro-create. You can pro-create and not be married"
That is precisely what the left wants. Dissolve the family, replace daddy with the government to increase dependence to create a permanent voting bloc. The Founding Fathers believed that a government closest to the people governed the best, and that's the family which is the most basic of all governments. The left has systematically destroyed the black family and have made huge gains in the hispanic community as well as other ethnicities.
"Gays do the same thing as heterosexuals, they work, pay taxes, get together with friends, raise families, go to the movies, the list goes on and on."
You'll get no argument from me there. What you don't understand is that by saying that's a "Marriage" is that you are telling children that there is no difference between the two sexes. That they are interchangeable. That there is no need for a child to have both a mom and a dad, when statistics say otherwise.
"Yes, gays are promiscuous, of course they are, but no more than any straights are."
That's actually not true. Homosexual relationships are more likely to include several parteners over the course of their relationship.
"Marriage has gone through many changes over the centuries, keeping up with the social acceptances of the current times,and this is just another example."
Marriage hasn't changed. Maybe it has in the sense of how it use to be practiced, but never really "changed" on as grand a scale that you are referring to.
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02
http://www.wpaag.org/Homosexuals%20and%20Same%20Sex%20Marriage.htm
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:E_dDSKaxYhUJ:www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2004-018.pdf+Gunnar+%22The+Demographics+of+Same-Sex+Marriages%E2%80%9C+in+Norway+and+Sweden&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
@Stafan,
"There are 18,000 same sex couples currently legally married in CA,"
Fully half of those who joined the marriage corruption scam in California were not residents of the state of California; and a large percentage of those individuals are already divorced.
Everyone has different Ideals, that is what makes the world a beautiful vibrant place. What does it really matter if two womem or two men find happiness with each other. Your desire to define marriage as one man and one woman is selfish, because you cannot come to terms with the concept. Accepting it does not mean you are gay, nor does it mean you children will be, and neither of those things are bad either.
You say the bible says that a man should not lie with another, but it also says that you shant eat shellfish, But I'm sure most of you do. It also says that its okay to beat your wife or keep slaves, all of which have been legally refuted and rightfully so, but what is also said, by Jesus is that you should love all without question, forgive and accept. turn the other cheek and live a good, tolerant life. Perhaps you should not be looking so hard at the differences that separate us, but looking closer for the similarities that bring us all together. you know...Just TRY to get along, that golden thing we tell our children. Not to be nosy, not to judge a book by its cover, and above all else, be a good, kind and loving person.
The amount of hate and vitreous speech that surrounds this argument only leads to more hate and more rancor. Look with love folks, look with love.
Maybe, but there are many other examples throughout Nom's site from the usual suspects. I only post here because it seems silly to post on a site where everyone posting appeals to the same argument. Plus my moderator friend here only lets half of my posts through the gate.as it is.
How can you blame a whole company for one guy supporting one thing and what about turning the other check and if u checked what the stand for you would be surprised how much things the stand for that alot of people don't believe in and that has nothing to do with coffee. If every one boycotted every company that supported things they didn't agree with no one would shop or have food or anything get over it people STAR BUCKS ROCKS
Stefan -
I overcame homosexuality; I know no one likes to admit that that's possible, but it is. I am far from being the only one. Sorry to disappoint you with facts.
Stefan, my advice to you is to include more substance and less name calling, it works wonders with the moderation.
Resist, you're doing a great job, it takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there in front of the trolls. Stories like yours go against everything they preach, every bit of dogma they believe in-- and it stings because they know it's true. You can tell because the reaction is immediate and hostile. Congrats on your work, your decision and your life. I appreciate the effort it takes to choose, even in the face of SSA.
To Resist SSA: Are you saying that the only reason for marriage is to procreate? Where does that leave couples who aren't able or choose not to procreate? Should they not marry or be allowed to marry? In these cases, what would be the foundation for the marriage. I personally would marry for love, not children but apparently you see it otherwise.
What disturbs me the most about this whole debate is why does it matter to some of you whether or not gay people get married. I would really like to know what actual impact it has on your life? We've had gay marriage in Canada since 2005 & so far, my family has stayed intact, some of my friends are still procreating, our economy is doing well, & contrary to popular belief, all hell has not broken loose..
I can't help but wonder how many gay men or women you actually know. If you could inch past your revulsion & really find out what it is like to be a gay person...you'd probably revise most of your comments..
I've seen first hand the damage that is caused in marriages when men (or women) try to be something other than who they are, Many people "deny" that they are gay, only to find out years into their marriage that they definitively are.
I appreciate your explanation of the dog theory but maybe to a gay person, sex between a straight couple appears to be the same way. That's no reason to deny you your right to marry.
If you had a degree in biology, you'd discover just how many species engage in homosexual activity.
I'm always amused when people believe that God created every tiny thing under the sun, except for gay people.
I just keep wondering how many "different" people God has to create before we learn that he is well pleased with all the diversity.
"I'm always amused when people believe that God created every tiny thing under the sun, except for gay people."
He created people, all people--- and he gave us all free agency to do what we choose. Did he create murderers? Thieves? I don't think so. Yet they exist, the prisons are full of them. The problem with your line of thinking is somehow imagining that you are separate from the human family simply because of the choices you are tempted to make, when actually that is exactly the human condition. We are all, to one degree or another, faced with issues that are difficult for us. There are many philosophies on how to be your best, to overcome anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, etc. None of those behaviors change our precious nature. We're all valuable, unique, and different.
Regardless of your particular difficulties in life, whether you struggle with SSA, promiscuity, single motherhood or whatever, we can all agree that supporting marriage between a man and a woman is a cornerstone of society, children and families. That is the issue, not SSA.
Wow Michael C, go ahead and keep believing that.
Sorry, Bryce. I was attempting to illustrate the ridiculousness of "Resist's" understanding of sexuality. You just got caught in the crosshairs.
Brad -
I'm saying that the reason that the State and society encourage marriage is because of the likelihood of procreation when a man and a woman have sex. It is a protective measure to help assure that kids are brought up by both their mom and dad, and it helps assure that moms and dads take responsibility for their offspring so that the government/taxpayers do not have to.
As one who was lured into homosexual behavior, my problem with normalizing such behavior into mainstream society (via marriage or removal of criminalization) is that it subjects young children, sexually confused/experimental youth, and sexually obsessed adults to consider participating in the behavior and even adopting the behavior to define themselves. Male promiscuity knows no bounds in the homosexual lifestyle and leads to the spread of deadly disease. Parents become broken hearted when their children decide to give up their procreative capacity to participate in dangerous sodomy. Homosexual "marriage" leads to attacks on religious organizations who are responsible for great charitable works, placing more burden and ceding more power to government. I could go on, but leave it at that.
Ha, ha, I DO have a degree in biology! And out of all of those courses in zoology, anatomy, physiology, biochem, genetics, etc.... not one of my teachers ever mentioned that homosexuality. I suppose the reason for that is because homosexuality is an anomaly, and you have to understand the norm before you can understand the abnorm. Several of my friends who couldn't hack the biology courses ended up moving to major in psychology, where, no doubt, homosexuality was discussed ad infinitum since mental disorders is a common topic in that field of study.
God created men and women, equipped to join together, create children, and perpetuate humanity. He gave all of us the power of free will; the power to use or abuse what gifts he has given us. We have the equipment, we know what it's for, and yet some of us choose to ignore that fact and participate in bizarre use of our anatomy with no purpose.
18,000 plus against
260,000 plus for
I wouldn't get all excited about having HATE in your hearts.
Are there not some children or elderly you need to go help? Or has that part gotten lost in the spreading of HATE.
Awww poor bullies. I personally am glad you keep spouting more and more; it shows people/world just who you are. Feed the HATE beast.
PS SOOOO how ever did your hate campaign against Disney work out? How many people are boycotting Disney again? uuhu.
a few facts here might be nice,
1) Starbucks has every right to treat its employees equally and support legislation that (SSM) treats them equally
2) Starbucks is a hippy- liberal coffee company from liberal Washington State, supporting SSM is not a stretch for them, nor is it thumbing their noses at anyone.
3) Starbucks supported Civil Unions in Washington State a few years ago and although NOM fought it and lost, NOM did not boycott Starbucks
4) Both Nike and Microsoft also support SSM....is NOM going to stop wearing NIKE sneakers and using Windows Operating systems on their computers?
5) 58% of Fortune 500 companies support marriage equality or same sex partner benefits.
...just thought everyone should take a step back and realize that this is not that surprising, not that big of a deal, and lastly the "free market" has spoken....Since Starbucks came out in support of SSM (over 60 days ago) their profits have acutally increased.
Good luck with the boycott though!
I think I'll be giving Starbucks more business than ever!
And to those of you with the whole - same-sex couples shouldn't be allowed to marry because they can't procreate argument. I'm glad to know that my marriage to my loving husband is null and void by your standards, because we have struggled with infertility. Nice logic, morons....
@Michael C -
Not sure what you think is ridiculous about men learning how to be men from other men. Heck, in ancient Sparta, men were taught to be homosexual by other men. Oh, but that's different, right? Right?
Not doing as well as the Starbucks petition. Go Starbucks!!
“Homosexual” and “heterosexual” can only make even a modicum of sense if “sex” means nothing more than carnal coupling in its myriad ways and is no longer associated with the natural complementary relation of men and women. To have recourse to this definition is, however, to rely on the social-constructivist relativism that drives the sexual revolution, which is an absurd basis for the assertion that “homosexuality” is an innate condition.
To deny that marriage is natural does not make the contrary alternatives “natural” in its stead (to assert thus is to commit the logical fallacy of affirming the consequent). If marriage is not natural, then nothing is, and the claim that a man is “homosexual” by nature undermines the very basis on which the term has been erected, because if “sex” is no more than erotic acts and urges, nothing permanent or intrinsic can be built on the shifting sands of “gender.”
Read more: http://touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=18-10-036-f#ixzz1qGJD89YB
Hi, ResistSSA
I was not aware that all men in ancient Greece were homosexual. Is this why their civilization ended? No babies were being made?
The TRULY exciting news is that over 250,000 people have signed in support of Starbucks' decision .. and as of this afternoon something like 18,000 have signed in support of NOM. Borrowing a song from :Your Arm Is too Short to Box With God" .. Nom, friends .. :"Maybe God is Trying To Tell You Something".
this makes me SICK. HATE HATE HATE. GROW UP PEOPLE and live your own lives!
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